- Hi! - Hey!
I'm Martin Lorentzon, I'm here for the Summer Talk Show.
You're in the right place. Welcome!
- Thanks! - I'm Felicia.
Pleasure!
Wow, what legends!
This feels completely right, yeah.
I'll be talking from back there, so you'll hear me through these.
Brilliant! This feels like Kaj Kindvall. Do you remember him?
- Legendary. - Yeah, sure do.
My dad listened to him a lot when I was younger, I remember.
- Okay. Yeah. That's cool. - Mhm. One of his favorite.
By the way, did you get an email about the script?
No, we'll play it by ear.
Okay.
- Let's go. - Let's go.
Let's kick this shit out!
Just wanted to raise a brief toast to the beautiful bride and groom.
Some of you may know me, my name is Martin Lorentzon,
I am the co-founder of Spotify.
Though Daniel knows me as the guy who bankrolled his mistakes
for the first five years of the company.
Now, seriously, I just want to say, you did well, kid.
From the day I met you, you exceeded all my expectations,
you defied the naysayers and you refused to give up.
I mean, look. You made it.
And I just want to say I'm proud of you.
I'm proud of you because this is the first thing you've done that I haven't paid for.
He is a very generous and wonderful big-hearted guy.
Actually, that's the word I would use to describe him, big.
He's got a big heart, a big mind and, you know,
I know what Sofia really likes about him is his enormous,
gigantic co...
Have you ever heard the word "neurotypical" in relation to your brain?
It means a typical brain can determine when something is appropriate,
When to be serious, and when to make jokes.
Without the neurotypical, we would never have a civilized society,
we would never know how to organize ourselves or have different values.
But me, I don't know what that's like.
Four times seven is twenty eight, five times seven, thirty five. Six times seven...
It's just unacceptable. I can't have a student who disrupts the class always.
I grew up in what was called the happiest generation ever.
We had peace, prosperity, good schools,
and everyone was supposed to behave so they can prosper.
But for some reason, I could never get behind that last part.
Here he is, two-time Olympic champion Ingemar Stenmark!
And there he goes. He's expected to be a gold medalist the third time!
He can't afford to lose, no mistakes...
He's got two tenths of a second left!
- Yes! - Martin!
Listen. Listen to me!
Martin!
Vidar is here. From the Stockholm Stock Exchange.
What the hell is this?
You invited me here to discuss how you wanted to issue an IPO
and what do I see?
No, it's just... we were interviewing a new head of HR.
We're a tech company, you gotta have some fun.
You can't sit behind the desk all day.
It is not sound. The Stockholm Stock Exchange is for serious companies.
- And you're clearly not there yet. - Yes, we are sir.
The thing is, Martin doesn't have a lot to do with day-to-day operations.
He's just here as a consultant. He has some unique skills that our company needs.
Yes, you are an odd character.
You should be grateful that your partner has his feet on the ground.
Exactly. Um...
Why don't you go outside for a bit Martin, I'll have a talk with Vidar.
My entire childhood, I always felt a little...
different. I guess.
All the other boys seemed so orderly and Swedish.
They all marched to the same tune.
But my tune was more like 17 big bands,
40 DJs and a bunch of death metal, all playing at the same time.
Unfortunately, no one else seemed to hear the same tune as me.
But then one day this quirky kid came to the office to pitch his software.
Advertigo is completely unique. When you search for a product, let's say a phone,
in the same instant, the service provides you with all comparable products,
specifications, prices. You have total access to the entire web.
Okay but isn't that just what Google is doing with Froogle?
Yes, but it's not the idea itself that's unique Martin, it's the execution.
Google just does it badly. My software on the other hand, is perfect.
And what happens if someone searches for three different products?
Is that data cross-referenced across the three searches?
Yes, Felix, that's a given.
- Why are your searches slower than Google? - That's the whole point.
One in 300,000 searches lead to an actual sale.
The point isn't the selling itself,
but how much advertising we can sell while people are searching.
Other entrepreneurs chase after new ideas relentlessly,
but for me, there's only one factor in making a business work.
Personality.
If you found a piece of coal that has the potential
to become a diamond...
Daniel?
... you have to go all in. There is no middle ground.
Stop here.
- Hey, Martin! - Hi Daniel.
- How are you doing? - Doing alright.
Okay.
So we buy you out and you buy a Ferrari?
Yeah, it's nice, isn't it?
- It's red. - Yeah, it's damn fast.
- And it draws a lot of attention. - Yes, it does.
Come!
- Where are we going? - I want to show you something.
Okay but it's a Ferrari, I can't leave the car.
The whole of Sweden is watching that thing. It's fine.
- What's going on? - We're gonna start a company.
Okay, why are we doing that?
We're gonna show them, Daniel. We're gonna show them how * wrong they are.
Alright.
Martin, you're kidding. That's not a strategy, that's a bad idea.
- Didn't we say we'd show those bastards? - Yeah, yes we did.
So, come up with a good idea and I'll take care of the strategy.
I don't have a good idea, I didn't know we'd be working together two minutes ago.
You said something interesting about advertising the other day.
What can we do to create behavioral patterns for people exposed to ads.
Well, I suppose you could...
go bigger maybe. I guess...
Search engines maybe...
That's a lot of money.
Yup, a lot of money. Absolutely.
Think of something else that's not dominated by a brand.
We need to create something global.
We need to think beyond little gray socialist Sweden.
Place your bets, please.
* the welfare state! Let's go! Think of something new.
Film and TV.
Too expensive. Needs too much bandwidth.
Try something else.
Okay, if not movies, then something that works well with advertising,
international, easy to consume... Music.
Place your bets, please.
Ouch, well *!
Why music, Daniel? Come on, why music, Daniel?
Okay, because it's already big online. Alright? It needs to be done better.
No, but why do they need us? What's not working as it is?
Music is not a luxury. It's something we all need,
something like water or food. Someone needs to do better than that pirate site.
You know, whoever succeeds in that creates something really * beautiful.
No * way!
Okay so, really, all of that took place in about six months
and most of it happened at Daniel's apartment.
But the point is, we clicked.
This is exciting and all, but...
I don't know if I can work with you.
And why not?
To be perfectly honest, I know what it's like to bring in other people.
You say you want to go all in, but I know what's gonna happen.
You'll think I'm being a pain because I'm pushing too hard on something.
Especially on something I wanna build. You'll say it's impossible and everything
is too expensive. That's how it is.
No one really dares to go on.
Strange then that I just dared to deposit 12 million into your account.
Okay.
It's true. Think of it as starting capital.
You put 12 million into my account?
No strings.
- Do what you want with it. - Are you serious?
Yes! *! Can't you see I want you to be difficult?
I want you to say "* you!" to the extreme socialists.
And create something so * perfect that everyone wants it.
You really are crazy?
You understand that there's no guarantee if I take this money...
I believe in you, Daniel!
In us.
I'm willing to give you anything you want, but you give me one thing in return.
What?
We have to trust each other.
- Okay, let's do it. Yeah. - Okay?
In marriage, you want somebody who's like you.
Same tastes, habits, sense of humor. In business, it's the opposite.
You want a creative if you're the money guy,
someone to take care of tech while you're taking care of finance.
But the recipe for success is the same in both cases, trust.
You need to show confidence in your partner from day one.
You have to trust them when they are on top and when they are at the bottom.
You have to believe in them, even when they get pissed at you.
And you also have to trust them when you give them more money than
they could ever dream of.
You have to have faith, even if everyone else says you're crazy for it.
And in return, they have to do the same.
My job was get the money.
Wow! You're in shape, I see.
This training program you are on, keep it up because
it's working.
You're going to meet my colleague. This guy is really smart, Niklas.
A real visionary.
Hey Martin, wait a minute...
It's just... wait, don't get me wrong, because I...
I'm really happy and flattered but I don't know a thing about the music industry.
So? How different can music and cars be you know?
I want you on the team because you're a dangerous negotiator.
And it's impossible not to like you my friend.
Above all, I trust you.
Bullshit!
- Daniel, Niklas. Niklas, Daniel. - How's it going? Daniel. Nice to meet you.
Good to meet you.
This is the guy in Detroit who makes US car execs eat out of his hand.
- A wolf in sheep's clothing. - Okay, calm down. Don't overdo it.
There is one thing I am a little worried about.
And that's...
Well, the whole idea actually.
Could you please explain how the hell we are supposed to make a profit from this?
Well, our investors aren't interested in profit.
What?
Look at that old man over there.
He comes here probably orders the same soup and cake with his coffee every day.
How excited do you think the restaurant manager is about the profit from his meal?
And then we come here and we sit down, and right away we make an impression.
Excuse me! Sweetheart! I'm really hungry today, can I...
I'm sorry, do you mind if I just...
We don't just want a little piece,
we want this right here, the whole cake.
To be honest, I want this cake as well, it looks amazing.
I don't just want cake, I want this pastry because why the hell not? How about that?
And how about some macaroons and apple strudel and look at these?
Look at these cupcakes, I want 'em! You should try one, Niklas.
who do you think the restaurant manager is most focused on?
Us or the old man?
Yes, absolutely, but sooner or later the bills will come.
No.
Don't even mention the bill yet, Niklas. Before that, I'll order all the starters
and then all the main courses as well, and when I've done that...
- Are you following? - Yes.
Then I will start over from scratch and order all the desserts again.
Yeah, but Martin...
No matter how much you put it off, sooner or later, you have to recognise
- that the bill will be due, right? - But then we'll be in a different place.
Then, we'll have shareholders. Thousands of shareholders who know that
if they want to have some dessert,
they have to come... to our table.
Because we have all the restaurant's desserts here with us.
And they're the ones who will pay the bill.
Growth.
Who wants cake?
You can start a business, build it from the ground up,
put your whole soul into it,
Was I really sure about that?
Of course I wasn't. But I knew Daniel would deliver on the tech.
And so, all I had to do was deliver too.
We are very interested.
But since the music sector is still uncertain right now, we feel that
a more wait-and-see approach suits us better.
Alright. I fully understand that you want to be cautious,
but this technology that Daniel has created is revolutionary.
You really don't want to miss this opportunity, Esther.
It's an astonishing product, Martin. But we'll wait and see.
For at least six months.
I never falter in the facs of money. But I knew I was in trouble.
Even if she wanted to go in later, we didn't have six months.
I was stopped from selling any more shares so if no one dared go in now,
within two weeks, we'd be broke.
Fortunately, I knew that rich capitalists are like children in a sandbox.
No one really wants anything until they think someone else wants it.
So, this isn't about golf, is it?
You just wanna pitch that Spotify idea again.
No.
As it happens, my co-founder Daniel, he met with some young investors
who were very happy to come in.
- Who's that? - Come on, Anton.
You know I can't divulge. Don't worry.
I might let you in for the second round.
Damn!
So Martin, who's this mysterious investor of yours?
Come on, Martin!
Anton from Arctic.
- Are you serious? - Yep.
Martin, come on.
Well, if I tell you, you didn't hear it from me.
Of course not.
Esther Ren.
Okay and what kind of deal did you get from Artic?
You know better than that Esther. I can't tell you that information.
Only ballpark figures. How much?
I'm not asking you to give me the precise amount.
All I can tell you is whoever backs us before
we get the rights, is going to make the real money.
So in theory, and this is purely hypothetical,
how does the offer look like for investors entering at this early stage?
Five percent of Spotify for ten million dollars.
I'm sorry Anton, but that moment has passed.
You know how it is.
But if you wanna come in, not saying that you do, but if you did,
it would now be for eight and half percent at 20 million.
12.75% for 30 million.
The best split I can offer you now is 40% for 40 million.
Okay, final offer.
20% for 60 million.
- Dollars? - Yes.
Spotify can accept both Serendipity and Arctic as investors,
if you are willing to split it.
- Okay. - I'm in.
In that moment I realized that I had made a mistake.
I thought all along that I was driving the price up,
but suddenly I realized that they had been prepared to pay much more.
I had undervalued Spotify.
And the opportunity to set the valuation would never come back.
You did what?
I changed the currency.
At the last second, I changed from dollars to euros.
Are you out of your goddamn mind?
It's more money. The same figure, but euros are worth 20% more.
- Who the hell would agree to that? - Trust me, Daniel. Learn to trust me.
Why did you have to do this at the last second?
Because it has to be on our terms, we have to show confidence.
Jesus, Martin, we're running on steam.
In two and a half weeks, we won't be able to pay wages.
It will be fine. Trust me on that.
And how do you know that? What do we do if they just say no? Have you considered
that? What if they laugh in your face for trying something so idiotic?
If they call before six, it's a no. If they call after, it's a yes.
- What? - A no is simple.
I left an hour ago, a no comes within an hour.
A yes requires a little more time.
A bit of marinating and that sort of thing.
- It takes a bit more *. - *? Really?
Really. I've done this before. Now it's after six.
What am I gonna tell everyone?
So we had a deal but your * got in the way?!
It'll be fine, 100%. 100%.
* this shit, Martin.
We needed this deal.
Hello? Hey, Anton. Yes.
Well yes. Have you had a chance to look at my proposition?
Well, all we want to know is, are you on board with Spotify or not?
Yes or no?
Jesus, *, we're...
You * did it!
You crazy bastard!
Euro!
It's called the madman trick. When you have nothing,
the only thing you can do is try to make your counterpart believe that
you are ready to leave the table at any time.
As so we launched Spotify in fall of 2008.
And we were finally on our way.
Hello?
are you okay?
Yeah. All good here.
Am I boring you or what?
Absolutely not.
I'm here sharing my life story with the whole of Sweden.
You're telling the Hollywood version where nothing bad happens and no one fails.
This Summer Radio Talk isn't just about what you've accomplished in life.
It's also about insights and self-development.
And what I, what we, the Swedish people want to hear
is how this journey has impacted you and changed you.
How can your story inspire other people who choose to listen to you?
That's what I want to hear.
Okay. Let me just continue my timeline, okay?
If I put it this way, Spotify's 2008 valuation was $250 million.
In 2009, the valuation, $300 million.
In 2010, a billion dollars. 2012, two billion dollars.
Yeah well, that's crazy money.
So how exactly can a startup like yours be worth so much money in such a short time?
Because the market says so!
- But how? - The laws of nature no longer apply.
When your valuation exceeds a billion dollars, you're a unicorn.
And then all the heavy hitters want to get on board.
Okay, but what's the point of all this?
Yeah.
I met with Peter Thiel, founder of PayPal.
But also the guy who first went in and invested in Facebook.
It was in that meeting that it became clear to me.
What do you mean?
I figured it out.
Wow, look at it! This looks exactly like a running track, you know?
Me and my family, we are athletes and I used to run a lot with my siblings.
I'm gonna keep this in the office, this is cool! Wow!
Mr. Lorentzon.
Peter! I love your approach.
No furniture?
But I think I'm gonna have to steal this. I love it.
Pardon.
I liked your pitch, but have you ever thought you might have a condition?
- What? - ADHD, maybe.
Something everyone thinks is a shtick,
but it's almost certainly in your role.
- What is he talking about? - Don't worry, you're in good company.
The average rate of neuro diversity in the wider population is about five percent.
The tech industry, it's about 30%.
I'm sorry, I am aware how I come across.
I'm on the spectrum myself, or so I've discovered.
You are?
I think society is both something that is very real and very powerful.
But on the whole, quite problematic. You agree?
Yes.
I only point out that many of the successful entrepreneurs seem to
be suffering from a mild form of condition.
Asperger's, ADHD... Where it's like...
you're missing the imitation socialization gene.
It happens to be a plus for innovation and creating great companies.
We'll get our people to send over the paperwork, but... we're in.
And one day, someone points out that
everything you've done has been balanced on a tightrope.
All this time I just thought that I was different, I was a bit more energetic.
Not that I had a condition.
But you know how Americans are, they give out a diagnosis everything.
I know, but, it's like I don't know where I end and where the condition begins.
Martin. You are you.
Don't change that.
- I shouldn't? - No.
- You sure? - Of course!
Yeah, well, something's gotta... Now that I know about this diagnosis and all, I...
- I have to change so that... - No...
We have a problem. A big * problem.
- She's just looking for attention. - You think she needs more attention?
And what do we do if everyone does what she does?
- TAYLOR SWIFT HARD ON SPOTIFY - What if the artists follow?
They won't. Come on, Taylor Swift!
Honestly, ignore her, it's just bullshit.
Is it just bullshit? She's the biggest artist in the world.
It wasn't bullshit.
It was a war zone, and we never knew where the next bomb would hit.
But I didn't see it coming from my friend, Daniel.
She's boycotting Spotify and going Apple.
You know not having her is costing us $500,000 a month.
Yeah, but we're still growing faster than anyone else.
We're entering more markets than Apple. She'll be back soon.
TAYLOR SWIFT LEAVES SPOTIFY
We can't give in now.
If we give an artist like that special treatment, every artist will want it.
We can't back down now.
But if we don't react now, it looks like we don't care. We come across as arrogant.
- That's what we've being accused of. - Yeah, right! We're just one step ahead.
Daniel, I promise, if we just stay quiet,
all these artistes one by one, will give in.
This is Daniel.
Yes, I understand. Of course, no problem.
That was one of our investors.
He was damn clear we should be doing everything to get Taylor Swift back.
- You too. Martin! - Hi, Stanley. How are you?
I just want to say thanks for coming. I appreciate it and hope we can discuss
this amicably and come to a solution.
Absolutely.
Please!
Just to be clear, we are not offering your client special terms.
That's never going to happen.
We're talking about Taylor Swift.
Well, we treat all artistes on Spotify exactly the same.
Martin, I don't know if this is the right time to play the madman card.
Sorry.
Right now, Taylor is out-streaming her nearest competitor two to one.
She was responsible for one in twenty streams on your site. What, um...
- Just gonna walk away from that? - If we have to, yes.
Guys, come on. It's not 2006.
You're not the young punks scaring the hell out of us anymore, this is 2014.
We know Taylor drives traffic to your site and we just want our share.
You want your share?
Let me show you what your share would look like,
if Spotify dies and piracy takes over again.
Are you * serious? Is this guy for real?
You trying to be * funny here?
If I wanted to be funny I'd offer to beat you in a dance-off or arm-wrestling.
In fact, we can do that anyway.
because that's how much difference this will make to reality.
What the *?
I invited you guys here because I wanted to talk to grown-ups, alright?
And you're showing me comedy graphs and offering to arm wrestle me.
The game has changed.
Okay. Yeah. Well, we're done here, alright?
- This is outrageous. You know... - Uhm...
I read from people that you were serious.
I heard you understood our world, is this how you think you do business?
You think you're gonna survive like this? You think this is how you win our trust?
You think it's gonna be funny when you have the best tech in the world
and every major artiste is taking themselves off your player?
No we don't. Listen, Stanley, I think...
Martin has a very unique voice and right now
he's speaking for himself, not the company.
- Daniel, we agreed. - It's better you and I handle this alone.
- Daniel! - Martin! I'll handle this myself.
Let's go inside. Please. Sorry about that.
And I've always wanted to be someone who's completely
genuine and free from all the rules.
- Hey! - Hey!
Thanks for telling them how big my * is.
Yeah
What else are old friends for?
- Nice party. - Yeah, sure.
Hey...
There's a lot of talk about this IPO.
You know a lot of guests here, they've been through this before.
- They've told me how strict the NASDAQ is. - Okay Daniel, I get it.
You think the introduction will go faster if I step down as chairman first?
Well, we've had a lovely journey, haven't we, you and I?