WEBVTT 00:00:19.561 --> 00:00:22.147 - Angelo. Now, he's my kind of person. 00:00:25.859 --> 00:00:28.778 - He just--he doesn't care a * about life. 00:00:28.820 --> 00:00:30.613 It's great. 00:00:33.074 --> 00:00:35.493 - Yep. He has. 00:00:36.911 --> 00:00:38.788 - Five girls. 00:00:40.832 --> 00:00:42.500 - You bet I did. 00:00:47.589 --> 00:00:50.300 - Just sitting around, shooting the shit. 00:00:50.342 --> 00:00:53.219 I asked him if he ever killed anybody. 00:00:53.261 --> 00:00:56.765 He said, "I don't know. Why do you want to know?" 00:00:56.806 --> 00:00:59.225 I said, "Well, what does it feel like?" 00:00:59.267 --> 00:01:00.727 He said, "I don't know." 00:01:00.769 --> 00:01:03.271 I said, "Well, we should find out sometime." 00:01:03.313 --> 00:01:05.440 He said, "Sure. Okay." And we did. 00:01:08.693 --> 00:01:15.617 * * 00:01:42.227 --> 00:01:47.273 - As I got older, I realized how lucky I was to be alive. 00:01:47.315 --> 00:01:50.026 I could have been one of those girls. 00:01:50.068 --> 00:01:53.113 I could have been so easily. 00:01:53.154 --> 00:01:56.032 I was always at Angelo's house. 00:01:56.074 --> 00:01:57.409 I washed their dishes. 00:01:57.450 --> 00:02:00.495 I was always hanging out there. 00:02:01.371 --> 00:02:02.872 I can play different scenarios 00:02:02.914 --> 00:02:06.251 where I can feel maybe Angelo was telling him, 00:02:06.292 --> 00:02:08.503 "You know, she's gotta go. She's gotta go." 00:02:08.545 --> 00:02:11.256 And I can see Ken say, "No, she can't go. 00:02:11.297 --> 00:02:14.467 She can't be one of 'em." 00:02:14.509 --> 00:02:18.013 But now that I look back on it, 00:02:18.054 --> 00:02:20.932 I could have been one of the victims. 00:02:20.974 --> 00:02:24.769 Had I gone over to Angelo's after Ken moved out, 00:02:24.811 --> 00:02:26.479 maybe I could have been. 00:02:26.521 --> 00:02:29.357 Maybe it's lucky I never went back to Angelo's house. 00:02:37.699 --> 00:02:40.785 - Buono was arraigned in Superior Court on ten counts 00:02:40.827 --> 00:02:43.079 including sodomy, pimping, pandering, 00:02:43.121 --> 00:02:44.789 and other * offenses. 00:02:44.831 --> 00:02:47.208 He already faces ten counts of murder. 00:02:47.250 --> 00:02:49.836 - Buono's attorneys have a hearing scheduled tomorrow 00:02:49.878 --> 00:02:51.755 where they're expected to tell the judge 00:02:51.796 --> 00:02:54.841 that Buono isn't capable of paying for his legal defense. 00:02:54.883 --> 00:02:56.634 The attorneys are expected to ask 00:02:56.676 --> 00:02:58.928 that the court pick up the legal expenses. 00:03:00.597 --> 00:03:03.683 - We'd been on the case for 6, 9, 12 months, 00:03:03.725 --> 00:03:05.935 whatever it was at that point. 00:03:05.977 --> 00:03:07.562 It became very, very clear 00:03:07.604 --> 00:03:10.523 that Angelo Buono would never be able to finance the case. 00:03:10.565 --> 00:03:12.692 Obviously, the upholstery business 00:03:12.734 --> 00:03:14.361 was not making any money. 00:03:14.402 --> 00:03:16.154 So we make a motion to be appointed. 00:03:16.196 --> 00:03:19.032 That's denied. 00:03:19.074 --> 00:03:22.619 Can I say I was surprised that we didn't get appointed? 00:03:22.661 --> 00:03:24.162 No, no. 00:03:25.163 --> 00:03:28.875 I personally would've liked to have stayed on the case, 00:03:28.917 --> 00:03:32.128 but Gerald Chaleff is appointed instead. 00:03:32.170 --> 00:03:34.714 - Mr. Chaleff, will you be the solitary lawyer 00:03:34.756 --> 00:03:37.050 defending Angelo Buono? - At this stage, yes. 00:03:37.092 --> 00:03:40.220 There may be other lawyers that are associated in later. 00:03:41.596 --> 00:03:42.806 When I got appointed, 00:03:42.847 --> 00:03:45.475 I definitely started from scratch. 00:03:45.517 --> 00:03:47.936 - Buono's new attorney is carefully reviewing 00:03:47.977 --> 00:03:49.479 the entire file, 00:03:49.521 --> 00:03:51.898 looking for anything that might help his client. 00:03:51.940 --> 00:03:53.733 - Representing somebody in a death penalty case 00:03:53.775 --> 00:03:57.070 was not appealing. It's a very scary thing, 00:03:57.112 --> 00:03:59.948 because you have somebody's life in your hands. 00:04:01.324 --> 00:04:02.659 As more information came, 00:04:02.701 --> 00:04:06.079 I realized the enormity of what was facing us-- 00:04:06.121 --> 00:04:10.375 How much evidence there was, how many witnesses there were, 00:04:10.417 --> 00:04:13.253 and also the public scrutiny. 00:04:13.294 --> 00:04:17.215 The case against Buono, at least when it first started 00:04:17.257 --> 00:04:19.884 and when I first got involved, 00:04:19.926 --> 00:04:23.263 was based primarily on Kenneth Bianchi's confessions 00:04:23.304 --> 00:04:25.181 in Bellingham, Washington. 00:04:25.223 --> 00:04:28.601 - How did you determine that the girl was dead? 00:04:28.643 --> 00:04:32.230 - No breathing. No rising of the chest. 00:04:32.272 --> 00:04:34.774 No heartbeat. 00:04:34.816 --> 00:04:37.986 - Did you listen? - Angelo always-- 00:04:38.028 --> 00:04:40.739 that was another--that should have been on that list. 00:04:40.780 --> 00:04:43.950 It was something I forgot, um... 00:04:47.037 --> 00:04:51.207 Angelo would always put his ear to the chest for a heartbeat. 00:04:51.249 --> 00:04:52.876 - If he had done the killing, 00:04:52.917 --> 00:04:54.627 would you be the one to listen to the chest? 00:04:54.669 --> 00:04:56.129 - No, it was always Angelo. 00:04:56.171 --> 00:04:59.299 - The public perception of Buono, once he got arrested, 00:04:59.341 --> 00:05:01.968 he was a murderer. 00:05:02.010 --> 00:05:05.430 And that was the public perception. 00:05:05.472 --> 00:05:08.475 When you have a case like this with a lot of media 00:05:08.516 --> 00:05:12.103 and the fact that it's ten murders-- 00:05:12.145 --> 00:05:14.522 they're gruesome murders-- 00:05:14.564 --> 00:05:17.192 the prosecution's like 95% home. 00:05:17.233 --> 00:05:19.319 You start winning these cases 00:05:19.361 --> 00:05:21.529 trying to push a big rock uphill. 00:05:25.700 --> 00:05:29.663 - I knew a man who was a court commissioner, 00:05:29.704 --> 00:05:32.540 and he said that Gerry Chaleff 00:05:32.582 --> 00:05:34.876 had just been appointed by the courts 00:05:34.918 --> 00:05:38.505 to represent Angelo Buono in the Hillside Strangler case 00:05:38.546 --> 00:05:39.964 and I should contact Gerry. 00:05:40.006 --> 00:05:43.677 And as Gerry would probably explain it, 00:05:43.718 --> 00:05:46.012 I showed up in his office and never left. 00:05:46.054 --> 00:05:49.891 I think it was very important to have a woman, 00:05:49.933 --> 00:05:53.853 because it was sending a message that this guy 00:05:53.895 --> 00:05:56.481 doesn't really hate women because look at the way 00:05:56.523 --> 00:06:00.902 he's relating to his defense counsel. 00:06:02.237 --> 00:06:06.866 I would be humanizing Buono in front of the jurors. 00:06:06.908 --> 00:06:09.619 I think I met Angelo right in the beginning. 00:06:09.661 --> 00:06:11.579 He didn't have respect for women, 00:06:11.621 --> 00:06:13.456 and he did not respect me. 00:06:13.498 --> 00:06:15.709 He barely smiled. 00:06:15.750 --> 00:06:18.753 If he did, it was at somebody else's expense. 00:06:18.795 --> 00:06:23.383 He wasn't terribly talkative, but he liked to do stuff 00:06:23.425 --> 00:06:26.886 like tell me behind Gerry's back that, 00:06:26.928 --> 00:06:30.682 "Oh, Gerry did a terrible job at cross-examination." 00:06:30.724 --> 00:06:34.394 And then he would tell Gerry behind my back, 00:06:34.436 --> 00:06:38.273 "Oh, Kathy did a terrible job at cross-examination." 00:06:39.274 --> 00:06:43.111 He was that kind of a guy. He was a manipulative guy 00:06:43.153 --> 00:06:47.157 that wanted power that was in a situation where he had none. 00:06:50.869 --> 00:06:52.662 - There's no question in my mind, 00:06:52.704 --> 00:06:55.915 once the jury hears all of the evidence, 00:06:55.957 --> 00:06:58.418 that the jury will come back with a verdict of guilty 00:06:58.460 --> 00:06:59.961 against Mr. Buono. 00:07:01.671 --> 00:07:05.342 - Roger Kelly was a very good prosecutor. 00:07:05.383 --> 00:07:11.097 The state's case against Buono was that he had the location 00:07:11.139 --> 00:07:13.933 where the girls were likely taken. 00:07:13.975 --> 00:07:16.770 He had the relationship with Bianchi. 00:07:16.811 --> 00:07:18.688 - By the time, there was no real discussion 00:07:18.730 --> 00:07:20.231 on the killing. 00:07:20.273 --> 00:07:22.400 It just seems like it was an automatic thing 00:07:22.442 --> 00:07:24.152 that would--that would happen. 00:07:24.194 --> 00:07:27.864 - Buono and Bianchi were charged with the prostitution 00:07:27.906 --> 00:07:31.076 or pimping these girls as well as the murders. 00:07:31.117 --> 00:07:33.453 The prosecution's version of the case 00:07:33.495 --> 00:07:37.123 was that these guys trusted each other enough 00:07:37.165 --> 00:07:40.001 to engage in a criminal enterprise together, 00:07:40.043 --> 00:07:42.295 which was this outcall service. 00:07:42.337 --> 00:07:45.590 And so they would trust each other to keep their mouth shut 00:07:45.632 --> 00:07:48.593 to kill women together. 00:07:48.635 --> 00:07:51.179 Seems to me like an incredible leap. 00:08:01.272 --> 00:08:03.441 - Yes, there were a lot of suspicious things, 00:08:03.483 --> 00:08:05.276 but in my mind, 00:08:05.318 --> 00:08:08.863 there wasn't proof beyond a reasonable doubt. 00:08:08.905 --> 00:08:12.617 Our theory was that Ken Bianchi was fully capable 00:08:12.659 --> 00:08:14.536 of killing these women on his own. 00:08:14.577 --> 00:08:17.080 And we know that for a fact, 00:08:17.122 --> 00:08:21.042 because he killed on his own in Bellingham, Washington. 00:08:21.084 --> 00:08:24.504 - 28-year-old Kenneth Bianchi pleaded guilty in Bellingham 00:08:24.546 --> 00:08:27.257 to strangling two Western Washington coeds. 00:08:28.925 --> 00:08:32.053 - As Roger Kelly prepared for the case, 00:08:32.095 --> 00:08:35.682 he interviewed Ken Bianchi on a number of occasions. 00:08:35.724 --> 00:08:38.351 Ken Bianchi kept changing his story saying, 00:08:38.393 --> 00:08:40.603 "Buono was involved. Buono wasn't involved." 00:08:40.645 --> 00:08:43.398 - Prosecutors say Bianchi has destroyed his credibility 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.484 as a witness by changing his story numerous times. 00:08:46.526 --> 00:08:48.737 - Bianchi's testimony is inconsistent. 00:08:48.778 --> 00:08:51.614 - The more time that went on, Roger Kelly then believed 00:08:51.656 --> 00:08:55.785 that he could not rely upon him as a witness in the case. 00:08:55.827 --> 00:08:58.204 He didn't see any evidence beyond him. 00:08:58.246 --> 00:09:01.207 So he went to John Van de Kamp, 00:09:01.249 --> 00:09:05.045 who was the DA of the county at the time and said, 00:09:05.086 --> 00:09:08.923 "I think I need to dismiss the case against Buono." 00:09:15.430 --> 00:09:18.641 - We are making this motion on the base of the evidence today 00:09:18.683 --> 00:09:21.227 particularly relating to the credibility 00:09:21.269 --> 00:09:23.605 or lack of it thereof of the witness, Kenneth Bianchi, 00:09:23.646 --> 00:09:25.231 that there is insufficient evidence 00:09:25.273 --> 00:09:28.568 to convict Mr. Buono beyond a reasonable doubt. 00:09:28.610 --> 00:09:30.737 - I was furious. 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:33.281 People of California, people of L.A. County 00:09:33.323 --> 00:09:35.408 deserve this damn thing to go to trial. 00:09:35.450 --> 00:09:39.954 - Roger Kelly-- who died and made him king? 00:09:39.996 --> 00:09:44.125 When they made that motion, we were shocked. 00:09:44.167 --> 00:09:46.336 We immediately went and started tossing a few down. 00:09:46.378 --> 00:09:48.546 We were really pissed off after all these years 00:09:48.588 --> 00:09:53.093 and the work, convinced that we had the right guy. 00:09:54.135 --> 00:09:57.097 I figured it's over. We're sunk. 00:10:06.731 --> 00:10:09.984 - Judges usually, if the prosecutor stands up and says, 00:10:10.026 --> 00:10:14.114 "I'm gonna dismiss the case," the judge just says, "Granted." 00:10:14.155 --> 00:10:15.991 Judge George didn't do that. 00:10:16.032 --> 00:10:18.618 - During today's proceedings, it came as no surprise 00:10:18.660 --> 00:10:20.120 that the DA recommended 00:10:20.161 --> 00:10:22.747 dropping the murder charges against Buono. 00:10:22.789 --> 00:10:25.959 The only surprise came from the judge, Ronald George, 00:10:26.001 --> 00:10:28.003 who said he would not rule on the recommendation 00:10:28.044 --> 00:10:29.462 until next week, 00:10:29.504 --> 00:10:32.674 because he needed more time to thoroughly review it. 00:10:35.218 --> 00:10:38.722 - There are dozens of judges throughout Los Angeles County 00:10:38.763 --> 00:10:41.057 who hear criminal cases. 00:10:41.099 --> 00:10:45.812 So it was a total surprise when I had been assigned the case. 00:10:47.188 --> 00:10:49.691 There were various pretrial motions, 00:10:49.733 --> 00:10:51.776 not of great significance, 00:10:51.818 --> 00:10:55.655 until the one came to dismiss all the murder charges. 00:10:55.697 --> 00:10:58.033 - In a move that shocked the legal community, 00:10:58.074 --> 00:11:01.161 the case against Angelo Buono was ordered to trial 00:11:01.202 --> 00:11:03.330 by Superior Court Judge Ronald George. 00:11:03.371 --> 00:11:06.583 This, despite the fact that Los Angeles County prosecutors 00:11:06.624 --> 00:11:08.835 recommended the charges be dropped. 00:11:08.877 --> 00:11:10.295 - I've been practicing for 15 years. 00:11:10.337 --> 00:11:12.088 I've never heard of a case where the district attorney 00:11:12.130 --> 00:11:13.631 moved to dismiss and the judge said, "No." 00:11:13.673 --> 00:11:16.217 - Well, I'd labored and labored over this, 00:11:16.259 --> 00:11:20.221 and I concluded it would not be in the interest of justice 00:11:20.263 --> 00:11:22.724 on a major, major offense, 00:11:22.766 --> 00:11:28.229 let alone ten counts of murder, to dismiss the charges. 00:11:28.271 --> 00:11:29.939 And I did make clear 00:11:29.981 --> 00:11:33.026 that if the DA did not proceed with the case, 00:11:33.068 --> 00:11:37.030 I would turn it over to the attorney general. 00:11:37.072 --> 00:11:40.158 - These kinds of things take very strange quirks and twists, 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:41.701 and we are in a position 00:11:41.743 --> 00:11:45.372 that we did not figure we would be in, but we are. 00:11:47.332 --> 00:11:49.542 - There is precedent for the attorney general 00:11:49.584 --> 00:11:51.002 taking over the trial, 00:11:51.044 --> 00:11:55.423 and Attorney General Deukmejian assigned two deputies, 00:11:55.465 --> 00:11:59.010 Roger Boren and Michael Nash, to be the prosecutors. 00:11:59.052 --> 00:12:00.804 - How do you feel about being chosen 00:12:00.845 --> 00:12:03.598 for this politically hot potato 00:12:03.640 --> 00:12:05.558 that's been dropped in the AG's lap? 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:07.102 - Well, I don't look at it that way. 00:12:07.143 --> 00:12:10.063 I just look at it as another prosecution we've been handed. 00:12:10.105 --> 00:12:13.024 When I heard on the news that the judge had invited 00:12:13.066 --> 00:12:15.235 the attorney general to take over the case, 00:12:15.276 --> 00:12:16.403 that really stunned me. 00:12:16.444 --> 00:12:19.030 In my wildest thoughts, 00:12:19.072 --> 00:12:22.283 did not think I'd be involved with this case. 00:12:25.203 --> 00:12:27.747 - I don't believe that Roger or I 00:12:27.789 --> 00:12:31.501 had ever tried a death penalty case before. 00:12:31.543 --> 00:12:35.588 So our experience in trying murder cases 00:12:35.630 --> 00:12:37.674 is not what you'd call vast. 00:12:37.716 --> 00:12:41.261 Our initial task was to 00:12:41.302 --> 00:12:45.932 review all the thousands of pages of documents 00:12:45.974 --> 00:12:51.062 and also to talk to as many witnesses as possible 00:12:51.104 --> 00:12:54.149 and see if there was a case that was triable. 00:12:54.190 --> 00:12:56.943 - Right now, we're in of an evaluation process 00:12:56.985 --> 00:12:58.403 to determine whether or not we believe 00:12:58.445 --> 00:13:00.155 that a prosecution is feasible. 00:13:00.196 --> 00:13:04.117 The big worry for us was simply that the DA had said 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:07.537 that this case was unwinnable because of the key witness, 00:13:07.579 --> 00:13:10.415 Ken Bianchi, being inconsistent. 00:13:10.457 --> 00:13:13.251 We knew that if we lost the case, 00:13:13.293 --> 00:13:16.296 it was gonna be bad for us... 00:13:16.338 --> 00:13:18.548 because we tried the case 00:13:18.590 --> 00:13:20.925 and cost the taxpayers a lot of money. 00:13:20.967 --> 00:13:24.429 - A month ago, Buono was only a step away from freedom 00:13:24.471 --> 00:13:27.182 when the district attorney announced the case against him 00:13:27.223 --> 00:13:28.975 could not be won. 00:13:29.017 --> 00:13:32.645 Today, he was back in court, looking pale and emaciated. 00:13:32.687 --> 00:13:34.606 He listened to deputy attorney general 00:13:34.647 --> 00:13:36.316 tell Judge Ronald George 00:13:36.358 --> 00:13:39.235 that the AG's office can get a conviction. 00:13:39.277 --> 00:13:42.280 - After our review, we decided that 00:13:42.322 --> 00:13:44.616 there was plenty of evidence to move forward in this case. 00:13:44.658 --> 00:13:46.409 And in fact, Roger and I 00:13:46.451 --> 00:13:49.537 both completely disagreed with the DAs 00:13:49.579 --> 00:13:51.831 and their assessment of the evidence. 00:13:53.291 --> 00:13:56.503 Our theory and our approach was, number one, 00:13:56.544 --> 00:13:58.713 you had ten murders 00:13:58.755 --> 00:14:02.008 and similarities that led to the conclusion 00:14:02.050 --> 00:14:05.220 that the same force happened to these ten girls. 00:14:05.261 --> 00:14:08.431 Secondly, there was evidence suggesting 00:14:08.473 --> 00:14:11.142 that the murders were committed by two people. 00:14:11.184 --> 00:14:13.436 And then, of course, the third thing is 00:14:13.478 --> 00:14:17.273 Kenneth Bianchi is clearly one of the murderers. 00:14:18.274 --> 00:14:21.194 If there's two murderers, who's the other murderer? 00:14:21.236 --> 00:14:24.447 The only person on earth that it could have been 00:14:24.489 --> 00:14:28.243 was Angelo Buono because of the relationship between the two. 00:14:28.284 --> 00:14:31.746 * * 00:14:31.788 --> 00:14:34.457 - My strategy going in, the main core of it, 00:14:34.499 --> 00:14:36.001 was Kenneth Bianchi was a liar 00:14:36.042 --> 00:14:37.585 and he's trying to save himself 00:14:37.627 --> 00:14:40.463 and that the prosecution and the cops had made a bad deal 00:14:40.505 --> 00:14:42.674 because they relied on him. 00:14:50.265 --> 00:14:52.350 - We were able to use the Bellingham murders 00:14:52.392 --> 00:14:54.269 because that's what he confessed to 00:14:54.310 --> 00:14:56.604 because it showed he could commit murders on his own. 00:14:56.646 --> 00:14:58.398 He didn't need anybody to help him. 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.276 - Tied 'em up. Hid 'em in separate places. 00:15:01.317 --> 00:15:04.112 Killed one. Killed the other. Nothing * to it. 00:15:04.154 --> 00:15:06.323 - You have to be able to explain a reason 00:15:06.364 --> 00:15:09.075 why Ken Bianchi picked Angelo Buono 00:15:09.117 --> 00:15:13.121 to be the person he blamed, but he was all over the map. 00:15:15.415 --> 00:15:18.752 Kenneth Bianchi was lying. That was my strategy. 00:15:25.800 --> 00:15:27.302 - Attention has turned to Los Angeles where the trial 00:15:27.344 --> 00:15:30.472 of one of the accused Hillside Stranglers has started. 00:15:30.513 --> 00:15:34.642 - Angelo Buono, charged with ten of the Hillside murders. 00:15:34.684 --> 00:15:37.354 Only a still photographer was allowed in the courtroom 00:15:37.395 --> 00:15:40.357 as the trial began in November of 1981. 00:15:43.026 --> 00:15:45.320 - Oh, I was excited getting a jury summons. 00:15:45.362 --> 00:15:47.405 It was my first time. 00:15:47.447 --> 00:15:50.867 I was a new mom raising my baby. 00:15:50.909 --> 00:15:52.702 I was a carrier for the post office. 00:15:52.744 --> 00:15:55.330 I think it was my way of feeling I was a grownup. 00:15:55.372 --> 00:15:57.374 "I got called for jury duty." 00:15:57.415 --> 00:16:00.043 So I was excited to go. 00:16:00.085 --> 00:16:03.880 I think I became aware of it being the Hillside Strangler 00:16:03.922 --> 00:16:05.674 after we were chosen 00:16:05.715 --> 00:16:07.300 and we were given a day 00:16:07.342 --> 00:16:09.552 of when the actual trial was gonna start. 00:16:09.594 --> 00:16:11.471 I thought, "This is real." 00:16:11.513 --> 00:16:13.973 - In court, jurors were seated near a map 00:16:14.015 --> 00:16:15.684 showing where the bodies were found. 00:16:15.725 --> 00:16:17.936 - Pictures of ten of the young women 00:16:17.977 --> 00:16:20.689 were displayed as part of the illustrations. 00:16:20.730 --> 00:16:22.691 - I don't know what I expected, 00:16:22.732 --> 00:16:25.610 but we were not prepared at all. 00:16:25.652 --> 00:16:27.696 So we just walked in the door, sat down, 00:16:27.737 --> 00:16:29.114 trial started, and boom. 00:16:29.155 --> 00:16:30.865 They start bringing out all these pictures-- 00:16:30.907 --> 00:16:33.868 these * young ladies on the slabs 00:16:33.910 --> 00:16:35.787 in the coroner's office. 00:16:35.829 --> 00:16:37.455 It was hard. 00:16:37.497 --> 00:16:41.042 It made it very spine chilling just to think 00:16:41.084 --> 00:16:44.254 that these girls went through what they did. 00:16:44.963 --> 00:16:46.965 - Roger Boren said he would produce evidence 00:16:47.007 --> 00:16:50.051 to show that Buono and Bianchi 00:16:50.093 --> 00:16:52.470 were *-oriented, manipulative people 00:16:52.512 --> 00:16:54.389 whose "chemical reaction 00:16:54.431 --> 00:16:57.058 came together to kill these women." 00:16:57.100 --> 00:17:00.854 - Did you and Angelo both say that you were police officers? 00:17:00.895 --> 00:17:04.149 - Uh, we took turns. It was never--never both. 00:17:04.190 --> 00:17:08.069 Naturally when one says that he is, 00:17:08.111 --> 00:17:09.612 people just take it for granted 00:17:09.654 --> 00:17:11.823 that the other person with him is also. 00:17:13.116 --> 00:17:15.035 - One of the contentions was that 00:17:15.076 --> 00:17:17.579 these two guys at various time 00:17:17.620 --> 00:17:19.664 acted like police officers. 00:17:19.706 --> 00:17:22.334 - There was never any... any planning beforehand. 00:17:22.375 --> 00:17:24.419 I would, you know, come over to his house, 00:17:24.461 --> 00:17:26.171 and he'd get his pair of handcuffs, you know, 00:17:26.212 --> 00:17:30.633 and he'd get his badge, and off we'd go. 00:17:30.675 --> 00:17:35.221 - When Buono was arrested, his shop was searched. 00:17:35.263 --> 00:17:38.433 A wallet was found in a drawer, 00:17:38.475 --> 00:17:40.560 and the wallet had a cutout 00:17:40.602 --> 00:17:43.021 where it looked like it would've been a police badge 00:17:43.063 --> 00:17:44.814 that went there, okay? 00:17:44.856 --> 00:17:46.941 But there was no badge there. 00:17:47.484 --> 00:17:51.655 - We were able to find some metallic residue. 00:17:51.696 --> 00:17:55.158 A wallet that had a metal object in it, 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.786 eventually it penetrates into the leather, 00:17:57.827 --> 00:17:59.954 and that's what could be seen. 00:17:59.996 --> 00:18:04.709 - During the trial, one of Buono's sons testified. 00:18:04.751 --> 00:18:08.713 And I said, "So are you aware that your dad had a badge?" 00:18:08.755 --> 00:18:11.466 And he said, "Oh, yeah he had a badge." 00:18:11.508 --> 00:18:13.426 I went up to him and I said, "So--" and I showed it to him. 00:18:13.468 --> 00:18:15.512 I said, "Is this the wallet with the badge?" 00:18:15.553 --> 00:18:17.013 He goes, "Oh, yeah. That's it." 00:18:18.556 --> 00:18:20.809 - During that period of time, the police, 00:18:20.850 --> 00:18:22.143 as a method of raising money, 00:18:22.185 --> 00:18:24.312 if you gave a certain amount of money-- 00:18:24.354 --> 00:18:26.648 I could have brought it today. I still have it. 00:18:26.690 --> 00:18:30.026 It's a holder. A very nice holder. 00:18:30.068 --> 00:18:32.737 And if you open it up, there's a badge inside. 00:18:32.779 --> 00:18:35.156 There was a lot of that that went on. 00:18:35.198 --> 00:18:38.159 Could have also been argued that Angelo did that 00:18:38.201 --> 00:18:41.287 along with probably 150 other guys in Los Angeles. 00:18:41.329 --> 00:18:42.998 Doesn't make him a great person, 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:44.457 but it doesn't make him a murderer. 00:18:51.631 --> 00:18:53.174 - One of the other interesting 00:18:53.216 --> 00:18:55.093 pieces of evidence in this case 00:18:55.135 --> 00:18:58.346 was actually the geography involved here. 00:18:58.388 --> 00:19:01.016 A lot of where the bodies were found 00:19:01.057 --> 00:19:03.727 and where girls were picked up 00:19:03.768 --> 00:19:06.938 were areas that were in some ways 00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:10.650 associated with Buono or Bianchi. 00:19:10.692 --> 00:19:12.694 * * 00:19:12.736 --> 00:19:16.156 - Within the first week of our study of the case, 00:19:16.197 --> 00:19:17.866 we decided we'd go look at all the sites 00:19:17.907 --> 00:19:19.951 that were key to the case, 00:19:19.993 --> 00:19:23.038 and while we're doing that, we can almost feel like 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:24.956 the places where the bodies were dumped 00:19:24.998 --> 00:19:29.044 were just in a straight line from Buono's house. 00:19:29.085 --> 00:19:33.548 We thought the juries will feel what we felt, 00:19:33.590 --> 00:19:38.219 which was that those locations were spokes from a hub, 00:19:38.261 --> 00:19:40.221 and that hub was Buono's house. 00:19:40.263 --> 00:19:42.057 I drew it on a map in front of 'em. 00:19:42.098 --> 00:19:44.225 I drew a great big wheel on the map 00:19:44.267 --> 00:19:47.228 and then drew the spokes of the wheel from the hub. 00:19:47.270 --> 00:19:49.814 - If I put a protractor down on a map 00:19:49.856 --> 00:19:52.108 between the bodies in Angelo's shop, 00:19:52.150 --> 00:19:56.029 I'd probably cover about a million and a half people. 00:19:56.071 --> 00:19:58.448 And you would hit all sorts of areas, 00:19:58.490 --> 00:20:00.742 some gang-related areas. 00:20:00.784 --> 00:20:03.078 There's a whole bunch of bad stuff 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:04.996 that's within that range there. 00:20:05.038 --> 00:20:08.917 So that's not as powerful as one might otherwise think. 00:20:13.004 --> 00:20:16.424 - We were taken in buses or vans 00:20:16.466 --> 00:20:19.594 to these locations just to show the proximity 00:20:19.636 --> 00:20:21.137 to where Buono lived, 00:20:21.179 --> 00:20:23.807 where his shop was, where his house was. 00:20:25.517 --> 00:20:28.311 I don't think I let it affect me 00:20:28.353 --> 00:20:30.438 going there to those sites. 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:33.149 It maybe just helped for us to get a perspective 00:20:33.191 --> 00:20:35.276 of where the bodies were dumped and stuff. 00:20:35.318 --> 00:20:39.823 But I didn't really see why it was necessary. 00:20:39.864 --> 00:20:43.785 I remember the strongest piece of evidence 00:20:43.827 --> 00:20:46.162 was the upholstery fibers. 00:20:46.204 --> 00:20:49.249 Police had evidence of different fibers 00:20:49.290 --> 00:20:52.335 from the different cases. 00:20:52.961 --> 00:20:56.297 - Today, everybody wants DNA, or they want a fingerprint. 00:20:56.339 --> 00:20:58.466 They want something definite. 00:20:58.508 --> 00:21:00.969 But in this case, that's all we had. 00:21:01.011 --> 00:21:02.345 - In Lauren Wagner's case, 00:21:02.387 --> 00:21:04.973 along with everything else that they did, 00:21:05.015 --> 00:21:06.683 they decided to electrocute her. 00:21:06.725 --> 00:21:10.770 And they attached electrical wires to her hands 00:21:10.812 --> 00:21:13.148 and put adhesive tape there. 00:21:13.189 --> 00:21:14.899 Then there were these fibers attached 00:21:14.941 --> 00:21:17.152 to where the tape was. 00:21:17.193 --> 00:21:19.237 - We did use a scanning electron microscope, 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:20.989 which is very powerful, 00:21:21.031 --> 00:21:23.491 and it was to analyze these fibers. 00:21:23.533 --> 00:21:26.161 We were able to be fairly definitive. 00:21:26.202 --> 00:21:28.538 This was probably carpet upholstery 00:21:28.580 --> 00:21:31.583 probably from vehicles. 00:21:33.376 --> 00:21:36.004 - And Buono had taken upholstery 00:21:36.046 --> 00:21:39.049 that he would normally put on a car, 00:21:39.090 --> 00:21:43.011 but he had used it as carpeting in the room 00:21:43.053 --> 00:21:46.556 where Bianchi had testified 00:21:46.598 --> 00:21:49.142 that the girls were tortured and killed. 00:21:49.184 --> 00:21:50.643 - The killings at Angelo's house 00:21:50.685 --> 00:21:52.645 always occurred in the same, in a particular room? 00:21:52.687 --> 00:21:54.814 - Same room. Always in the spare bedroom. 00:21:54.856 --> 00:21:57.609 - Spare bedroom. - Always on the floor. 00:21:57.650 --> 00:22:00.111 - Always on the floor. What's on that floor? 00:22:00.153 --> 00:22:02.030 Carpet, linoleum, or what? 00:22:02.072 --> 00:22:04.032 - Uh, there was carpeting there. 00:22:04.074 --> 00:22:08.161 - The fibers matched with the material found in Buono's shop. 00:22:08.203 --> 00:22:10.872 It was very strong evidence. 00:22:11.414 --> 00:22:13.166 - It's always easy to start at the end 00:22:13.208 --> 00:22:14.918 and then work backwards. 00:22:14.959 --> 00:22:16.544 "So we got this fiber. 00:22:16.586 --> 00:22:18.880 "Oh, yeah. It's similar to what Buono had in his shop. 00:22:18.922 --> 00:22:20.590 So therefore it must be"-- 00:22:20.632 --> 00:22:22.258 but it's a common fiber 00:22:22.300 --> 00:22:24.552 that's used at a lot of different places. 00:22:24.594 --> 00:22:26.554 You know, it could have come from anywhere. 00:22:26.596 --> 00:22:28.223 Just because it was a similar type 00:22:28.264 --> 00:22:31.726 doesn't mean that it had to come from Buono's shop. 00:22:31.768 --> 00:22:34.813 - The police found no evidence at the house. 00:22:34.854 --> 00:22:37.357 You would think that there would be blood or semen 00:22:37.399 --> 00:22:41.736 or something that they would've found on the carpeting, 00:22:41.778 --> 00:22:44.489 but they didn't. 00:22:45.281 --> 00:22:47.075 I don't know exactly 00:22:47.117 --> 00:22:50.328 who put their hands around the women's necks. 00:22:50.370 --> 00:22:54.958 I don't know exactly who wrapped the adhesive tape 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.043 on Lauren Wagner's hands. 00:22:57.085 --> 00:22:59.129 But is there any evidence that 00:22:59.170 --> 00:23:01.339 Buono put his hands on anyone? No. 00:23:10.432 --> 00:23:12.684 - In the middle of his murder trial, 00:23:12.726 --> 00:23:16.062 Angelo Buono sent a note to the bailiff 00:23:16.104 --> 00:23:18.815 saying that he wanted to talk to me. 00:23:18.857 --> 00:23:21.735 So I went down to the jail and I interviewed him in the jail. 00:23:22.944 --> 00:23:26.698 Never got into any detail about anything. 00:23:26.740 --> 00:23:29.242 All he wanted to do mostly was complain 00:23:29.284 --> 00:23:30.827 how terrible the food was, 00:23:30.869 --> 00:23:33.204 about the way he was being treated, 00:23:33.246 --> 00:23:36.958 about how he didn't belong in prison. 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:40.754 He certainly had no problem with taking responsibility 00:23:40.795 --> 00:23:42.213 for running the girls, 00:23:42.255 --> 00:23:46.468 but Angelo Buono insisted that he was innocent. 00:23:48.553 --> 00:23:50.889 - Meanwhile, the Hillside Strangler case continues. 00:23:50.930 --> 00:23:54.351 Sheryl Kellison, one of Bianchis's girlfriends, 00:23:54.392 --> 00:23:56.728 was the third witness to take the stand. 00:23:59.606 --> 00:24:04.444 - I did not wanna testify at the trial. 00:24:04.486 --> 00:24:07.072 I was ashamed. I was embarrassed. 00:24:07.113 --> 00:24:12.118 I didn't want everybody to know that I was involved with them, 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:13.995 but I had no choice. 00:24:14.746 --> 00:24:18.750 I testified about what I saw at Angelo's house, 00:24:18.792 --> 00:24:21.711 what I heard about the girls that were there, 00:24:21.753 --> 00:24:25.840 the young girls, the house, the way it looked. 00:24:25.882 --> 00:24:28.760 There was no doors on any of the rooms, 00:24:28.802 --> 00:24:31.721 only beads, even on the bathrooms. 00:24:31.763 --> 00:24:33.765 I thought that to be very, very strange. 00:24:35.517 --> 00:24:39.145 And then it came to the part of Ken and I, 00:24:39.187 --> 00:24:41.314 about our relationship, 00:24:41.356 --> 00:24:43.817 but it was basically about Angelo. 00:24:45.485 --> 00:24:48.113 I felt Angelo had to have been 00:24:48.154 --> 00:24:50.824 the guilty mastermind of it all, 00:24:50.865 --> 00:24:53.118 and Ken was just a follower. 00:24:53.159 --> 00:24:55.453 I have a feeling after the first time they did it, 00:24:55.495 --> 00:24:57.789 Ken, you know, enjoyed it 00:24:57.831 --> 00:25:01.543 and it just became easier each time after that, 00:25:01.584 --> 00:25:04.004 but Angelo was the mastermind. 00:25:04.045 --> 00:25:07.173 I can definitely see that. 00:25:09.884 --> 00:25:12.637 - As the trial went along, I honestly don't remember 00:25:12.679 --> 00:25:15.306 Angelo ever looking at the jury. 00:25:15.348 --> 00:25:17.308 He always stared straight ahead. 00:25:17.350 --> 00:25:19.894 So all you ever saw was his profile, 00:25:19.936 --> 00:25:25.275 his gray wavy hair, and his straight nose. 00:25:25.316 --> 00:25:28.653 - There was something about his physical appearance-- 00:25:28.695 --> 00:25:31.239 and this may sound inappropriate-- 00:25:31.281 --> 00:25:34.868 but in some ways he looked like a gargoyle 00:25:34.909 --> 00:25:38.872 on the top of a cathedral edifice. 00:25:39.706 --> 00:25:42.625 - What I remember more than anything was, Buono, 00:25:42.667 --> 00:25:46.296 he had eyes like a shark, and he just looked evil. 00:25:46.338 --> 00:25:48.006 I could feel it. 00:25:48.048 --> 00:25:52.260 I've dealt with a lot of bad people, murderers, 00:25:52.302 --> 00:25:55.430 robbers, rapists, 00:25:55.472 --> 00:25:57.932 but I've never looked at someone 00:25:57.974 --> 00:26:03.063 and just felt the evil radiating off 'em like that. 00:26:03.104 --> 00:26:05.148 Just pure evil. Pure evil. 00:26:05.190 --> 00:26:07.984 - The same people that would tell you he's pure evil 00:26:08.026 --> 00:26:09.235 would've gone to his shop 00:26:09.277 --> 00:26:11.488 and had him reupholster their car, 00:26:11.529 --> 00:26:13.782 'cause he was very good at it. 00:26:13.823 --> 00:26:15.659 When people say, "Yeah, I walked into court 00:26:15.700 --> 00:26:17.243 and I saw he was pure evil," 00:26:17.285 --> 00:26:21.206 think of the context of where he is and what he's doing. 00:26:21.247 --> 00:26:24.084 Trust me, if you were sitting where he was sitting, 00:26:24.125 --> 00:26:26.294 people could say that about you. 00:26:29.047 --> 00:26:32.926 - I don't know who was the brains, who was the muscle. 00:26:32.967 --> 00:26:34.260 I do know, you know, 00:26:34.302 --> 00:26:39.724 that Bianchi kind of looked up to Buono. 00:26:39.766 --> 00:26:46.189 And so it's hard to believe that Buono was led into this 00:26:46.231 --> 00:26:51.069 by his squirrely little cousin who showed up at his doorstep, 00:26:51.111 --> 00:26:52.570 you know, one day. 00:26:52.612 --> 00:26:55.865 - But almost every witness we had always said 00:26:55.907 --> 00:26:58.451 that they never heard Ken Bianchi 00:26:58.493 --> 00:27:01.454 give Angelo Buono an order. 00:27:01.496 --> 00:27:04.082 And they also said that whenever Angelo Buono 00:27:04.124 --> 00:27:07.419 gave any kind of instruction to Ken Bianchi, 00:27:07.460 --> 00:27:10.964 Ken Bianchi snapped to it and did it. 00:27:11.673 --> 00:27:15.010 - You know why people claim Buono's the mastermind? 00:27:15.051 --> 00:27:17.595 They're just guessing and speculating. 00:27:17.637 --> 00:27:19.389 Buono had a successful business. 00:27:19.431 --> 00:27:21.558 He was making money. 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:24.060 He had girlfriends. He had wives. 00:27:24.102 --> 00:27:28.773 It was Bianchi whose life was totally dysfunctional. 00:27:28.815 --> 00:27:32.110 - Buono was the guy who fixed your car. 00:27:32.152 --> 00:27:34.779 Quiet, not articulate. 00:27:34.821 --> 00:27:39.284 Bianchi was a conman, glib, worming his way into things. 00:27:39.326 --> 00:27:41.953 But he was crazy in a controlled way. 00:27:41.995 --> 00:27:44.080 He gave a lot of different stories, 00:27:44.122 --> 00:27:47.876 but his constant changes was what we had to work with 00:27:47.917 --> 00:27:51.296 and what was best for our defense. 00:27:51.338 --> 00:27:54.090 But as a prosecutor, you can't put witnesses on 00:27:54.132 --> 00:27:56.551 you don't believe are telling the truth. 00:27:56.593 --> 00:27:59.137 And with Bianchi, who knows what the truth was, 00:27:59.179 --> 00:28:00.889 which version was the truth. 00:28:00.930 --> 00:28:02.474 If they didn't have Kenneth Bianchi, 00:28:02.515 --> 00:28:03.892 they wouldn't have a case, 00:28:03.933 --> 00:28:05.810 'cause he led 'em to everything else. 00:28:05.852 --> 00:28:09.105 Bianchi doesn't testify, there's no evidence. 00:28:11.691 --> 00:28:14.527 - When I saw the first Dr. Watkins tape, 00:28:14.569 --> 00:28:17.280 I wasn't really in touch with what was going on. 00:28:17.322 --> 00:28:19.491 I really didn't have too much to say about it, you know, 00:28:19.532 --> 00:28:22.952 it was...kind of unbelievable 00:28:22.994 --> 00:28:25.038 what I was seeing and things like that. 00:28:25.080 --> 00:28:27.248 Then when I got to the third Dr. Watkins tape, 00:28:27.290 --> 00:28:31.002 it quite frankly, um... 00:28:31.044 --> 00:28:33.713 little ways through the hypnosis session, 00:28:33.755 --> 00:28:35.757 scared the hell out of me. 00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:38.176 I was just--I was just really surprised, you know. 00:28:38.218 --> 00:28:40.136 I just couldn't believe what I was seeing, 00:28:40.178 --> 00:28:43.723 and it just really bothered me really bad. 00:28:45.392 --> 00:28:48.937 - Just about the time that the Angelo Buono trial began, 00:28:48.978 --> 00:28:51.231 the Supreme Court basically said 00:28:51.272 --> 00:28:53.525 that you couldn't use a hypnotized witness. 00:28:53.566 --> 00:28:56.111 - The state Supreme Court is weighing several cases 00:28:56.152 --> 00:28:59.030 involving hypnotically-induced testimony, 00:28:59.072 --> 00:29:01.157 whether such testimony should be excluded. 00:29:01.199 --> 00:29:04.452 - Hypnosis was used as part of the investigation 00:29:04.494 --> 00:29:07.831 and interrogations of Kenneth Bianchi. 00:29:07.872 --> 00:29:10.375 - Just close your eyes. Close your eyes. 00:29:10.417 --> 00:29:13.878 You're sinking deeper and deeper. 00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:15.755 - At the beginning of the trial, 00:29:15.797 --> 00:29:18.508 the defense moved to the strike the testimony 00:29:18.550 --> 00:29:19.884 that was taken under hypnosis 00:29:19.926 --> 00:29:22.846 and to preclude Bianchi from testifying at all. 00:29:22.887 --> 00:29:26.391 - We had a lengthy hearing 00:29:26.433 --> 00:29:30.437 in which expert psychiatrists were called to the stand 00:29:30.478 --> 00:29:32.856 with regard to Kenneth Bianchi, 00:29:32.897 --> 00:29:36.317 and one of the most entertaining aspects 00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:38.069 in this gruesome trial 00:29:38.111 --> 00:29:42.782 was watching videotapes of Kenneth Bianchi 00:29:42.824 --> 00:29:49.039 when he was either under hypnosis or faking hypnosis. 00:29:49.080 --> 00:29:51.791 - If the judge ruled that he had been hypnotized, 00:29:51.833 --> 00:29:54.794 nothing he said would've been allowed in the trial, 00:29:54.836 --> 00:29:58.256 and then the case would've most likely fallen apart. 00:29:58.298 --> 00:30:02.427 * * 00:30:02.469 --> 00:30:07.349 - Ultimately, the judge ruled that Bianchi is faking hypnosis 00:30:07.390 --> 00:30:09.225 and his testimony could be admitted. 00:30:09.267 --> 00:30:11.561 - Judge Ronald George ruled that Bianchi 00:30:11.603 --> 00:30:13.396 was not hypnotized. 00:30:13.438 --> 00:30:16.775 That means Bianchi must now testify against his cousin. 00:30:16.816 --> 00:30:18.735 - Well, I think it's real interesting. 00:30:18.777 --> 00:30:20.570 We now have the judge calling Mr. Bianchi a liar. 00:30:20.612 --> 00:30:22.447 - The ultimate question's gonna be is, 00:30:22.489 --> 00:30:24.324 did he lie about everything? 00:30:24.366 --> 00:30:26.951 And that's what the jury's gonna have to determine. 00:30:26.993 --> 00:30:29.954 - So much of this case rested on Kenneth Bianchi. 00:30:29.996 --> 00:30:34.125 Bianchi was the only--the only connection that they had. 00:30:34.167 --> 00:30:37.962 I mean, he was the only source. He was the case. 00:30:38.004 --> 00:30:43.134 But Bianchi is such a wild card in this whole thing. 00:30:43.176 --> 00:30:45.303 - Credibility will be a key issue in the trial, 00:30:45.345 --> 00:30:47.806 because the principal witness will be this man, 00:30:47.847 --> 00:30:50.433 Kenneth Bianchi, described by the defense 00:30:50.475 --> 00:30:52.268 as the "most manipulative, 00:30:52.310 --> 00:30:54.896 conning, cold-blooded liar you ever saw." 00:30:54.938 --> 00:30:56.523 - You had to put Kenneth Bianchi 00:30:56.564 --> 00:30:58.566 on the witness stand, okay? 00:30:58.608 --> 00:31:03.655 I mean, simple as that. He was one of the murderers. 00:31:03.697 --> 00:31:06.199 - There are no witnesses other than Kenneth Bianchi 00:31:06.241 --> 00:31:10.495 who saw Angelo Buono kill any of these girls. 00:31:11.579 --> 00:31:15.709 - We wanted to present everything we knew about him-- 00:31:15.750 --> 00:31:18.628 the good, the bad, and the ugly. 00:31:19.629 --> 00:31:24.217 We made no bones about the fact that he was a liar, 00:31:24.259 --> 00:31:26.845 that he was one of the biggest scumbags 00:31:26.886 --> 00:31:29.556 that ever walked the face of the earth. 00:31:51.536 --> 00:31:52.912 - In criminal cases, 00:31:52.954 --> 00:31:56.708 you can't always have squeaky clean witnesses. 00:31:56.750 --> 00:31:59.210 You have to take 'em as they come, okay? 00:31:59.252 --> 00:32:03.340 And hopefully you have enough there 00:32:03.381 --> 00:32:05.175 to prove your particular case. 00:32:08.094 --> 00:32:10.555 - We told the jurors before the case started 00:32:10.597 --> 00:32:12.057 that he was going to lie to them, 00:32:12.098 --> 00:32:14.559 but some of what he would say would be the truth 00:32:14.601 --> 00:32:17.395 and that they would have to decide what he was telling 00:32:17.437 --> 00:32:20.065 was truthful or not. 00:32:20.106 --> 00:32:22.567 He came to court dressed in a three-piece suit. 00:32:22.609 --> 00:32:24.652 He was very clean cut looking. 00:32:24.694 --> 00:32:26.529 He did not look like a crazy person. 00:32:26.571 --> 00:32:30.742 For a serial killer, he was very warm kind of personality. 00:32:32.118 --> 00:32:35.664 - People said that he reminded them of Ted Bundy, 00:32:35.705 --> 00:32:39.918 able to pass as a very educated, 00:32:39.959 --> 00:32:44.172 nice looking, well-spoken young man. 00:32:44.214 --> 00:32:47.092 But at the same time, he was a killer. 00:32:47.842 --> 00:32:49.427 - I was the one who questioned him 00:32:49.469 --> 00:32:52.472 when he testified during the trial. 00:32:52.514 --> 00:32:53.848 "Did you do the murders?" 00:32:53.890 --> 00:32:56.101 "I don't know. I don't remember. Maybe." 00:32:56.142 --> 00:32:58.853 I just asked the questions, you know, 00:32:58.895 --> 00:33:01.106 and whatever he was gonna say, he was gonna say. 00:33:01.147 --> 00:33:03.108 Had a lot of ground to cover. 00:33:03.149 --> 00:33:05.568 - It was another day of sensational revelations 00:33:05.610 --> 00:33:07.278 by Kenneth Bianchi, 00:33:07.320 --> 00:33:10.115 the state's key witness in the murder trial of Angelo Buono. 00:33:10.156 --> 00:33:11.408 He said he lied to authorities 00:33:11.449 --> 00:33:13.159 when he confessed in Washington, 00:33:13.201 --> 00:33:17.038 because of a 99% chance of going to the gallows there. 00:33:17.080 --> 00:33:18.790 He lied to psychiatrists. 00:33:18.832 --> 00:33:20.667 He lied during the preliminary hearing, 00:33:20.709 --> 00:33:23.128 and he lied to investigators when he demonstrated 00:33:23.169 --> 00:33:26.047 with a mannequin how he killed the victims. 00:33:26.089 --> 00:33:28.883 - He was on the witness stand for six months. 00:33:28.925 --> 00:33:30.427 He did his best 00:33:30.468 --> 00:33:33.304 to lie a lot about a lot of different things. 00:33:33.346 --> 00:33:35.807 But he also said a lot of things that were true, 00:33:35.849 --> 00:33:39.269 that were verified by other evidence. 00:33:39.310 --> 00:33:41.062 But ultimately, 00:33:41.104 --> 00:33:46.818 Kenneth Bianchi was probably one of the worst witnesses 00:33:46.860 --> 00:33:51.072 in the history of legal jurisprudence. 00:33:51.114 --> 00:33:53.199 He's a defense attorney's dream. 00:33:54.784 --> 00:33:58.538 - I cross-examined him every opportunity I was given. 00:33:58.580 --> 00:34:00.665 Remember I had a big chart, and I talked about 00:34:00.707 --> 00:34:02.876 how often Bianchi changed his story. 00:34:02.917 --> 00:34:05.545 - The defense today picked up where it left off yesterday, 00:34:05.587 --> 00:34:08.840 relentlessly bombarding the jury with specific instances 00:34:08.882 --> 00:34:13.178 of lies by Kenneth Bianchi, the prosecution's key witness. 00:34:13.219 --> 00:34:15.013 - I played some videotapes of him 00:34:15.055 --> 00:34:16.890 pretending he was hypnotized... 00:34:19.934 --> 00:34:22.812 - To show he could lie and act at the same time 00:34:22.854 --> 00:34:24.189 and be believable. 00:34:24.230 --> 00:34:26.649 You can describe that, you can explain it, 00:34:26.691 --> 00:34:28.360 but you need people to see it. 00:34:28.401 --> 00:34:30.904 - The more I think about it, the more I get pissed off. 00:34:30.945 --> 00:34:34.949 - He didn't like that at all. - Do you understand pissed off? 00:34:34.991 --> 00:34:37.118 - He would get angry, you know, act out. 00:34:37.160 --> 00:34:38.953 The crazier he looked, I felt, the better. 00:34:38.995 --> 00:34:41.373 Because it just went to my theme that this was 00:34:41.414 --> 00:34:44.751 not somebody you could trust or believe in at all. 00:34:46.670 --> 00:34:49.297 - Bianchi contradicted himself many times. 00:34:49.339 --> 00:34:52.509 He had trouble remembering even what some of the victims 00:34:52.550 --> 00:34:55.095 looked like, but his memory of Buono's part 00:34:55.136 --> 00:34:57.097 was clear every step of the way. 00:34:57.138 --> 00:35:00.558 - And this is kind of a curious angle 00:35:00.600 --> 00:35:02.143 about Ken Bianchi 00:35:02.185 --> 00:35:05.146 is that I don't think he ever lost his resolve 00:35:05.188 --> 00:35:08.066 to testify against Angelo Buono. 00:35:08.108 --> 00:35:09.526 And he said that a couple of times 00:35:09.567 --> 00:35:12.112 from the stand to the jury. 00:35:12.153 --> 00:35:14.406 He says, "No matter what I've said, 00:35:14.447 --> 00:35:16.700 "there's one thing that I've always been truthful about. 00:35:16.741 --> 00:35:18.284 "I've always been telling the truth 00:35:18.326 --> 00:35:21.788 about Angelo Buono's involvement in these murders." 00:35:21.830 --> 00:35:23.581 - It was unbelievable. 00:35:23.623 --> 00:35:27.043 He said when he was up in Bellingham, Washington, 00:35:27.085 --> 00:35:29.546 that his only reason for living was to get Angelo. 00:35:29.587 --> 00:35:34.843 - I have to do everything I can to get Angelo Buono. 00:35:34.884 --> 00:35:38.638 - And this was obviously him getting Angelo Buono. 00:35:38.680 --> 00:35:41.891 It was basically his show, 00:35:41.933 --> 00:35:46.187 and, uh, he just played it to the hilt. 00:35:46.229 --> 00:35:50.275 - I think what surprised me most about Bianchi's testimony 00:35:50.316 --> 00:35:51.985 was he just figured we were all fools, 00:35:52.027 --> 00:35:54.112 but we didn't fall for it. 00:35:54.154 --> 00:35:56.323 After a while, anything that he said 00:35:56.364 --> 00:35:58.700 we just didn't believe him. 00:35:58.742 --> 00:36:01.578 As far as I was concerned, he was a major conman. 00:36:10.754 --> 00:36:14.758 - My sister Kim was my everything. 00:36:14.799 --> 00:36:17.635 I don't think the pain will ever fully subside. 00:36:17.677 --> 00:36:21.389 There will always be the hurt, 00:36:21.431 --> 00:36:23.767 the loss made worse 00:36:23.808 --> 00:36:26.644 by knowing that they did horrific things to her. 00:36:27.562 --> 00:36:29.439 That's why it's very important 00:36:29.481 --> 00:36:31.816 to keep my sister's memory alive. 00:36:31.858 --> 00:36:36.696 And I think it's high time that the girls be humanized. 00:36:36.738 --> 00:36:38.073 They were somebody's loved ones, 00:36:38.114 --> 00:36:41.284 somebody's sisters, somebody's daughters. 00:36:42.702 --> 00:36:44.120 And my heart goes out 00:36:44.162 --> 00:36:48.792 to all the families that suffered what we suffered. 00:36:54.464 --> 00:36:55.924 - More than three years ago, 00:36:55.965 --> 00:36:58.635 Angelo Buono was arrested and charged. 00:36:58.677 --> 00:37:01.805 His trial began in November 1981, 00:37:01.846 --> 00:37:04.766 not only making it one of the longest criminal cases ever, 00:37:04.808 --> 00:37:07.435 but one of the most expensive as well. 00:37:07.477 --> 00:37:08.770 - We're talking about ten murders. 00:37:08.812 --> 00:37:11.815 We're talking about a mountain of evidence. 00:37:11.856 --> 00:37:15.318 And so it was gonna take a while. 00:37:18.655 --> 00:37:20.448 - The trial took forever. 00:37:20.490 --> 00:37:24.452 There was a lot of things that were brought up and old wounds, 00:37:24.494 --> 00:37:26.538 you know, that were opened again. 00:37:28.707 --> 00:37:32.794 I wanted justice for Cindy. 00:37:32.836 --> 00:37:35.130 I mean, you go through roller coasters of emotions 00:37:35.171 --> 00:37:36.798 and it's like, you know, 00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:39.509 how is this--you know, how is this gonna end? 00:37:40.468 --> 00:37:44.139 - Now, the jury must weigh 50,000 pages of testimony 00:37:44.180 --> 00:37:46.057 from 400 witnesses. 00:37:46.099 --> 00:37:49.477 1,800 exhibits were introduced into evidence. 00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:52.147 - After two years of trial, 00:37:52.188 --> 00:37:56.693 the last thing I'm going to risk is having a mistrial. 00:37:56.735 --> 00:38:00.780 So on very short notice, I instructed the jurors 00:38:00.822 --> 00:38:05.785 to get their pajamas and their toothbrushes 00:38:05.827 --> 00:38:10.206 and told them that they would be sequestered at a hotel 00:38:10.248 --> 00:38:12.459 to deliberate. 00:38:13.752 --> 00:38:15.086 - When we started deliberations, 00:38:15.128 --> 00:38:17.422 everybody still had some doubts. 00:38:17.464 --> 00:38:21.801 We literally threw out anything Bianchi had to say, 00:38:21.843 --> 00:38:24.471 and just to start going victim by victim 00:38:24.512 --> 00:38:26.973 with the other evidence. 00:38:29.017 --> 00:38:31.061 Everybody took it very seriously. 00:38:31.102 --> 00:38:35.732 We did go through our notes. Everybody took a lot of notes. 00:38:35.774 --> 00:38:37.609 I had nine books. 00:38:37.650 --> 00:38:39.486 - With trial work, you never know 00:38:39.527 --> 00:38:42.697 how a jury is going to react. 00:38:42.739 --> 00:38:44.699 - We thought there was a chance 00:38:44.741 --> 00:38:48.244 the jurors could convict him on all of 'em. 00:38:48.286 --> 00:38:51.873 - But we were able to poke a lot of holes 00:38:51.915 --> 00:38:55.627 in some of the prosecution's evidence. 00:38:55.669 --> 00:39:00.382 And I think we did everything that we possibly could do 00:39:00.423 --> 00:39:04.177 to prove his uninvolvement in the crimes. 00:39:04.219 --> 00:39:07.889 I believe that this jury could come to the conclusion 00:39:07.931 --> 00:39:10.558 that there wasn't proof beyond a reasonable doubt. 00:39:12.227 --> 00:39:15.188 I thought that was a possibility. 00:39:18.191 --> 00:39:19.567 - It took about two weeks 00:39:19.609 --> 00:39:22.278 before the first verdict came in. 00:39:23.697 --> 00:39:26.157 It was Lauren Wagner, the fibers. 00:39:26.199 --> 00:39:28.910 And Buono was found guilty. 00:39:28.952 --> 00:39:31.579 And within a few days came in another verdict, 00:39:31.621 --> 00:39:33.873 and it was Yolanda Washington. 00:39:41.297 --> 00:39:43.675 * * 00:39:43.717 --> 00:39:44.926 - In the Yolanda Washington case, 00:39:44.968 --> 00:39:47.470 the jury came back, not guilty on that. 00:39:47.512 --> 00:39:50.515 - Buono has been acquitted on one of the ten counts. 00:39:50.557 --> 00:39:54.853 - I believe Yolanda was killed by the Hillside Stranglers. 00:39:54.894 --> 00:39:56.730 Just because he wasn't found guilty 00:39:56.771 --> 00:39:58.481 meant that they may not have had, 00:39:58.523 --> 00:40:00.567 you know, some of the pieces of evidence 00:40:00.608 --> 00:40:02.777 required to convict someone for murder. 00:40:04.946 --> 00:40:06.781 - I thought, "Uh-oh. Maybe they're gonna find 00:40:06.823 --> 00:40:08.908 not guilty on all the rest of the cases." 00:40:11.161 --> 00:40:13.788 But a couple of days after that, 00:40:13.830 --> 00:40:17.876 they come down with a guilty on Judy Miller. 00:40:18.668 --> 00:40:20.754 And after that, it just fell into place. 00:40:20.795 --> 00:40:23.173 - In this latest decision, Buono was convicted 00:40:23.214 --> 00:40:26.384 of first-degree murder in the death of Lissa Kastin. 00:40:26.426 --> 00:40:29.596 Another guilty verdict in the death of Jane Evelyn King. 00:40:29.637 --> 00:40:33.391 Buono was also convicted of murdering Kristina Weckler. 00:40:33.433 --> 00:40:34.976 - A Los Angeles jury 00:40:35.018 --> 00:40:37.312 has convicted Angelo Buono of a ninth murder. 00:40:37.354 --> 00:40:40.648 - Buono has been acquitted of only one murder. 00:40:40.690 --> 00:40:43.860 - I was very happy that the jury had saw 00:40:43.902 --> 00:40:46.029 the truth of the story. 00:40:46.071 --> 00:40:48.281 Angelo Buono turned around, gave me a dirty look, 00:40:48.323 --> 00:40:51.159 and I gave him a big smile. 00:40:51.201 --> 00:40:54.120 - The trial now moves into the sentencing phase. 00:40:54.162 --> 00:40:56.247 The state is asking for the death penalty. 00:40:58.458 --> 00:41:00.710 - He did not testify in the guilt phase. 00:41:02.295 --> 00:41:05.840 He walked up to the witness stand, got on, 00:41:05.882 --> 00:41:08.510 and said, "My rights have been broken." 00:41:08.551 --> 00:41:10.929 Like one sentence and refused to say anything else. 00:41:12.972 --> 00:41:16.393 - That's all he ever had to say throughout the whole trial. 00:41:16.434 --> 00:41:20.563 "My legal and moral rights have been violated." 00:41:20.605 --> 00:41:22.691 And that's all he said. 00:41:22.732 --> 00:41:24.651 - Buono's life was spared today 00:41:24.693 --> 00:41:26.069 as a seven-woman, five-man jury 00:41:26.111 --> 00:41:28.655 recommended he be sentenced to life in prison 00:41:28.697 --> 00:41:31.157 without the possibility of parole. 00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:33.535 - We didn't give him the death penalty. 00:41:33.576 --> 00:41:37.872 But we all decided that he was gonna have a worse life 00:41:37.914 --> 00:41:40.333 being in prison for the rest of his life. 00:41:40.375 --> 00:41:43.378 - Life in prison without possible of parole 00:41:43.420 --> 00:41:44.963 was not fair. 00:41:45.005 --> 00:41:46.715 It was not fair. An eye for an eye. 00:41:46.756 --> 00:41:49.843 And, you know, that's the way I felt. 00:41:49.884 --> 00:41:52.470 - Justice would've been them getting the death penalty 00:41:52.512 --> 00:41:54.014 quick and swift, 00:41:54.055 --> 00:41:56.141 not living for years and years and years 00:41:56.182 --> 00:41:59.936 and having us taxpayers pay for that. 00:41:59.978 --> 00:42:02.147 That just makes me sick to my stomach. 00:42:02.188 --> 00:42:04.274 Makes me so angry. 00:42:09.112 --> 00:42:10.864 - The case of the Hillside Stranglers 00:42:10.905 --> 00:42:12.365 came to a close today. 00:42:12.407 --> 00:42:14.576 - Angelo Buono and Kenneth Bianchi 00:42:14.617 --> 00:42:16.411 sat just inches from each other, 00:42:16.453 --> 00:42:19.247 yet they exchanged no words or glances. 00:42:19.289 --> 00:42:21.249 - I would not have the slightest reluctance 00:42:21.291 --> 00:42:23.918 to impose the death penalty in this case 00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:26.379 were it within my power to do so. 00:42:26.421 --> 00:42:29.090 Ironically, although these two defendants 00:42:29.132 --> 00:42:32.469 utilized almost every form of legalized execution 00:42:32.510 --> 00:42:34.304 against their victims, 00:42:34.346 --> 00:42:38.099 the defendants have escaped any form of capital punishment. 00:42:38.141 --> 00:42:41.102 - Buono never will be eligible for parole. 00:42:41.144 --> 00:42:44.272 Kenneth Bianchi, though he prefers California, 00:42:44.314 --> 00:42:46.941 he was ordered to serve his term in Washington state. 00:42:46.983 --> 00:42:48.151 - It felt like a conclusion. 00:42:48.193 --> 00:42:50.445 I didn't know if it felt like justice. 00:42:50.487 --> 00:42:53.657 But it was quite a show, and that's basically how I saw it. 00:42:53.698 --> 00:42:56.868 - By the time it was over, nearly two years had gone by, 00:42:56.910 --> 00:42:59.120 the longest murder trial in U.S. history. 00:42:59.162 --> 00:43:01.456 Court officials, conservatively estimate 00:43:01.498 --> 00:43:05.752 the whole thing cost state taxpayers $2 million. 00:43:06.544 --> 00:43:09.881 - This was the longest case I ever tried. 00:43:09.923 --> 00:43:11.966 It would never happen like this again. 00:43:12.008 --> 00:43:14.177 Courts are too overcrowded now. 00:43:14.219 --> 00:43:18.139 There'd be lots of push to shorten the trial. 00:43:18.181 --> 00:43:23.186 And technology, DNA, and stuff might make it a lot shorter. 00:43:23.937 --> 00:43:26.398 - When the trial ended, a reporter came up to me 00:43:26.439 --> 00:43:29.234 and said, "So how come you're not, 00:43:29.275 --> 00:43:32.237 you know, celebrating, you know, this great result?" 00:43:32.278 --> 00:43:33.571 And I said, 00:43:33.613 --> 00:43:37.659 "You know, there's nothing to celebrate here, okay? 00:43:37.701 --> 00:43:41.329 "We've got ten dead girls. 00:43:41.371 --> 00:43:45.458 "Their families and friends have lost them forever. 00:43:45.500 --> 00:43:47.961 There's nothing to celebrate here." 00:43:52.382 --> 00:43:55.468 - When you go from wanting to dismiss the case 00:43:55.510 --> 00:44:00.140 to them both getting life, I think justice got served. 00:44:00.181 --> 00:44:02.684 There's other cases that actually stick with me 00:44:02.726 --> 00:44:04.602 more than this one, 00:44:04.644 --> 00:44:07.522 but they just didn't get the publicity that this one got. 00:44:07.564 --> 00:44:10.734 Things just keep coming to light. 00:44:10.775 --> 00:44:12.902 It keeps cropping up. 00:44:12.944 --> 00:44:15.989 Even to this day, he's changing his story. 00:44:16.031 --> 00:44:17.615 He made it all up to save his life, 00:44:17.657 --> 00:44:19.784 because he was gonna get 00:44:19.826 --> 00:44:22.370 the death penalty on the Bellingham case. 00:44:22.412 --> 00:44:25.206 - Kenneth Bianchi is now serving a life sentence 00:44:25.248 --> 00:44:28.126 at Washington state's Walla Walla Prison. 00:44:28.168 --> 00:44:31.588 For the first time in a decade Bianchi is speaking out. 00:44:31.629 --> 00:44:34.049 Did you murder the five women 00:44:34.090 --> 00:44:35.842 that you confessed to killing in Los Angeles? 00:44:35.884 --> 00:44:37.177 - No, I didn't. 00:44:37.218 --> 00:44:40.263 I didn't abduct them nor murder them. 00:44:40.305 --> 00:44:42.849 - Did you murder the two women in Bellingham? 00:44:42.891 --> 00:44:45.352 - No, I did not. I don't know who did. 00:44:48.229 --> 00:44:49.522 - About four or five years ago, 00:44:49.564 --> 00:44:52.359 I received a letter from Kenneth Bianchi 00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:56.738 from the prison that he's in Washington state. 00:44:56.780 --> 00:44:59.324 He said, "I didn't do those murders, 00:44:59.366 --> 00:45:02.994 "And I need somebody to take my appeal 00:45:03.036 --> 00:45:07.457 that will get me out of the cases in California." 00:45:07.499 --> 00:45:09.250 - What people don't understand is people 00:45:09.292 --> 00:45:11.878 do not always plead guilty because they're guilty. 00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:15.423 And I pled guilty to basically end the prosecution. 00:45:15.465 --> 00:45:17.092 - The reason he was writing to me 00:45:17.133 --> 00:45:20.595 is because back at the time of the case, 00:45:20.637 --> 00:45:24.516 I was the only lawyer who believed that he didn't do it. 00:45:32.065 --> 00:45:34.275 - During hypnosis sessions, Bianchi confessed 00:45:34.317 --> 00:45:36.611 and also pointed the finger at Buono. 00:45:36.653 --> 00:45:40.490 Bianchi now says his confession in court was a lie. 00:45:40.532 --> 00:45:42.909 - Facing death when you haven't done something, 00:45:42.951 --> 00:45:45.370 if you've never been in that situation, 00:45:45.412 --> 00:45:47.330 it just--if I can say this, 00:45:47.372 --> 00:45:48.873 it just scares the hell out of you. 00:45:48.915 --> 00:45:52.335 If you're a person that wants to please 00:45:52.377 --> 00:45:57.007 and the psychologists asks you certain questions 00:45:57.048 --> 00:45:58.883 or has a certain approach, 00:45:58.925 --> 00:46:01.594 things are gonna come out that are not real. 00:46:01.636 --> 00:46:04.305 - I suppose we should all have an openness for the fact 00:46:04.347 --> 00:46:06.391 that maybe we don't have it right. 00:46:06.433 --> 00:46:08.351 There have been too many cases 00:46:08.393 --> 00:46:10.603 where we've discovered that we were wrong. 00:46:11.938 --> 00:46:14.107 I thought that it was definitely possible 00:46:14.149 --> 00:46:17.193 that he committed the murders in Washington. 00:46:17.235 --> 00:46:19.362 He got arrested, and either he or his lawyer 00:46:19.404 --> 00:46:23.241 or somebody advising him, thought that if he could help 00:46:23.283 --> 00:46:26.453 solve the Hillside Strangler case in California, 00:46:26.494 --> 00:46:31.291 perhaps he would get some special leniency in Washington. 00:46:31.333 --> 00:46:36.129 Why Bianchi said what he said, I assume he had some reasons, 00:46:36.171 --> 00:46:40.258 but bottom line is if we were on the big board in Vegas 00:46:40.300 --> 00:46:42.135 and I had to bet one way or the other, 00:46:42.177 --> 00:46:46.765 I'd say he wasn't involved in any of them in California. 00:46:46.806 --> 00:46:48.433 I've never really thought he did it. 00:46:48.475 --> 00:46:51.227 I didn't think it then, and I don't think it now. 00:46:51.269 --> 00:46:54.522 And if he was lying about the confession, 00:46:54.564 --> 00:46:58.651 then maybe he was lying about his cousin. 00:47:00.904 --> 00:47:03.948 - I have a reasonable doubt as to whether Angelo Buono 00:47:03.990 --> 00:47:06.660 was guilty of these murders. 00:47:06.701 --> 00:47:08.912 Could I prove it? No. No. 00:47:08.953 --> 00:47:12.582 But I think anyone who has an interest in this case 00:47:12.624 --> 00:47:16.252 should be aware that those of us on the defense side 00:47:16.294 --> 00:47:19.714 feel that justice was not done here. 00:47:24.010 --> 00:47:25.720 - I believe that questions remain 00:47:25.762 --> 00:47:27.138 in the Hillside Strangler case. 00:47:27.180 --> 00:47:32.310 The media did such a good job of convincing the public 00:47:32.352 --> 00:47:34.521 that Angelo Buono and Kenneth Bianchi 00:47:34.562 --> 00:47:37.440 were the Hillside Stranglers. 00:47:37.482 --> 00:47:38.983 How do you challenge it? 00:47:39.025 --> 00:47:41.111 Once it gets into people's minds, you can't get it out. 00:47:41.152 --> 00:47:43.488 You can't--you can't un-ring the bell. 00:47:43.530 --> 00:47:46.908 But I think the popular narrative of the case 00:47:46.950 --> 00:47:48.618 is wrong. 00:47:48.660 --> 00:47:54.082 Prior to this case, there was the belief that serial killers 00:47:54.124 --> 00:47:57.836 only kill within their own race and they had a type. 00:47:57.877 --> 00:48:02.090 But in this case, they were all over the map. 00:48:02.132 --> 00:48:04.259 Looking at the police reports, 00:48:04.300 --> 00:48:07.512 I really could not tell you why they picked some 00:48:07.554 --> 00:48:11.016 and why they picked others to be Hillside Strangler victims. 00:48:11.057 --> 00:48:13.184 But you got those differences. 00:48:13.226 --> 00:48:15.812 You gotta explain the differences of changing MO. 00:48:15.854 --> 00:48:18.106 Could indicate multiple killers. 00:48:18.148 --> 00:48:19.733 It's absolutely possible 00:48:19.774 --> 00:48:23.111 that some of these cases were misattributed. 00:48:23.153 --> 00:48:26.072 Some of the Hillside Strangler murders could have been done 00:48:26.114 --> 00:48:28.366 by somebody who has yet to be captured, 00:48:28.408 --> 00:48:32.912 who has been loose for, you know, all these years. 00:48:34.414 --> 00:48:36.833 I think they need to look at it again. 00:48:36.875 --> 00:48:39.753 They need to look at it closer. 00:48:41.421 --> 00:48:43.214 - You could revisit some of them. 00:48:43.256 --> 00:48:45.342 If we had the evidence, I'd have to go back 00:48:45.383 --> 00:48:49.846 and look at what bodily fluids we had in these cases 00:48:49.888 --> 00:48:53.099 and see if we could have done DNA. 00:48:53.141 --> 00:48:56.478 Is there a need to? I don't particularly think so. 00:48:56.519 --> 00:48:59.856 I think most of what the detectives did in those days, 00:48:59.898 --> 00:49:03.026 in those cases are pretty on target. 00:49:03.068 --> 00:49:05.487 Is it worth it as a curiosity factor? 00:49:05.528 --> 00:49:07.238 Yes, it's worth it. 00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:10.575 - I'd certainly like to go back into the fiber evidence. 00:49:10.617 --> 00:49:12.911 I'm sure there would be some issue about it 00:49:12.952 --> 00:49:15.080 on some of the clothing or other stuff 00:49:15.121 --> 00:49:19.125 if there was touch DNA from Bianchi or Buono. 00:49:19.167 --> 00:49:21.920 Saliva that was on one of the victims. 00:49:21.961 --> 00:49:23.880 But would it change the result? 00:49:23.922 --> 00:49:25.674 I don't believe so. 00:49:25.715 --> 00:49:28.593 - I contacted the crime lab, and they said 00:49:28.635 --> 00:49:31.471 that all the DNA evidence from that case was destroyed. 00:49:32.972 --> 00:49:35.725 If you find DNA evidence, 00:49:35.767 --> 00:49:38.186 why would you destroy it without testing? 00:49:38.228 --> 00:49:40.397 If you're so convinced that Kenneth Bianchi 00:49:40.438 --> 00:49:43.441 and Angelo Buono are the Hillside Stranglers, 00:49:43.483 --> 00:49:47.612 wouldn't you want to take the DNA evidence, test it, 00:49:47.654 --> 00:49:50.448 and find out if you're right? 00:50:08.049 --> 00:50:09.801 - I don't care what anybody find. 00:50:09.843 --> 00:50:12.262 You've got a conviction. 00:50:12.303 --> 00:50:14.931 You want to exhume all the bodies, 00:50:14.973 --> 00:50:17.308 and you wanna do a DNA investigation to see 00:50:17.350 --> 00:50:20.020 if the semen matches Bianchi and Buono? 00:50:20.061 --> 00:50:22.313 Is that what you're telling me you wanna do? 00:50:22.355 --> 00:50:26.443 I've dealt with that issue before on DNA 00:50:26.484 --> 00:50:30.864 where we have to exhume a body to compare, 00:50:30.905 --> 00:50:34.200 you know, semen on the body. 00:50:34.242 --> 00:50:36.536 That's very rare that you're gonna get that done, 00:50:36.578 --> 00:50:38.663 because there's so much opposition 00:50:38.705 --> 00:50:40.665 from the families to do that. 00:50:40.707 --> 00:50:42.334 I'm happy where we are. 00:50:42.375 --> 00:50:43.752 It's the best we could have got. 00:50:43.793 --> 00:50:45.378 We couldn't done any better. 00:51:02.687 --> 00:51:05.231 - The man known as the Hillside Strangler is dead. 00:51:05.273 --> 00:51:07.150 California prison officials report 00:51:07.192 --> 00:51:09.527 67-year-old Angelo Buono 00:51:09.569 --> 00:51:12.030 was found dead in his cell early this morning. 00:51:12.072 --> 00:51:15.283 Officials say there were no signs of trauma to the body. 00:51:15.325 --> 00:51:17.202 - When I heard that one of 'em 00:51:17.243 --> 00:51:24.167 died peacefully in his jail cell...oh, I was so angry. 00:51:24.209 --> 00:51:28.254 I was like, "Are you serious right now, God? 00:51:28.296 --> 00:51:32.550 "You actually let that horrible thing die 00:51:32.592 --> 00:51:38.640 peacefully in his jail cell? No, that's not fair." 00:51:39.474 --> 00:51:44.104 - He got what he deserved, you know, and he's gone. 00:51:44.145 --> 00:51:48.233 I'm glad he's gone. I wish Bianca had--you know, 00:51:48.274 --> 00:51:50.735 somebody had done away with him in prison 00:51:50.777 --> 00:51:53.279 or he just died of natural causes, whatever. 00:51:53.321 --> 00:51:55.490 Society doesn't need them running around. 00:51:55.532 --> 00:51:57.867 You know, running around alive. 00:51:58.702 --> 00:52:01.287 - There was nothing real about Kenneth Bianchi. 00:52:01.329 --> 00:52:05.041 The charisma, the niceness that he showed me, 00:52:05.083 --> 00:52:07.252 I don't think that was him. 00:52:07.293 --> 00:52:11.214 I think I saw the fake Ken Bianchi. 00:52:11.256 --> 00:52:15.135 The real Ken Bianchi was out there killing girls. 00:52:28.898 --> 00:52:33.862 - Even after over 40 years, I still think about Cindy. 00:52:33.903 --> 00:52:35.363 She didn't live long enough 00:52:35.405 --> 00:52:39.242 to be able to be the person she should have been. 00:52:39.284 --> 00:52:42.120 She was not able to be a mother. 00:52:42.162 --> 00:52:44.622 She just--she was a very sweet, naïve girl 00:52:44.664 --> 00:52:46.333 that just began to live. 00:52:48.877 --> 00:52:51.212 - My sister was a human being. 00:52:51.254 --> 00:52:55.675 She was a loving, kind, caring human being. 00:52:55.717 --> 00:52:59.596 And some monsters tore her out of this world. 00:53:03.808 --> 00:53:07.020 I just refuse to say their names on camera. 00:53:07.062 --> 00:53:08.772 This isn't about them. 00:53:08.813 --> 00:53:10.690 This is about what those monsters did 00:53:10.732 --> 00:53:12.901 to beautiful souls. 00:53:12.942 --> 00:53:16.821 These girls deserve the world to know 00:53:16.863 --> 00:53:21.201 that they were wonderful human beings, 00:53:21.242 --> 00:53:25.830 that there were people that loved them. 00:53:25.872 --> 00:53:27.582 They weren't just victims. 00:53:34.714 --> 00:53:41.721 * *