WEBVTT

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Is that you, Mark?
'Yeah, Mum, it's me.

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'You're not gonna believe
this. I'm sitting next to Dad!'

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He's alive!

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Mark, you have your father
back. I'm so happy for you.

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Would you mind? It's just a
thing we do with our clients.

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John Darwin? I'm arresting
you on suspicion of fraud.

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This is ridiculous.

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'Since our dad was arrested,

00:00:30.533 --> 00:00:34.172
'we are very much in an angry
and confused state of mind.'

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The front cover of today's
Daily Mirror simply reads:

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"John never had amnesia."

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Firstly, I think you're
a good person who,

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for reasons that are
probably very complicated,

00:00:46.051 --> 00:00:47.371
did a truly dreadful thing.

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Second, tell the
police the truth

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and start rebuilding your
relationship with your boys.

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Anne Darwin? I'm arresting
you on suspicion of fraud.

00:00:54.330 --> 00:00:56.210
We've not spoken to
either of our parents,

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and at this present time, we want
no further contact with them.

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'We've not spoken to either of our
parents, and at this present time,

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'we want no further
contact with them.'

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Anne. Hello.

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Hello, I'm Nicola.

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Hello, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you too.

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How long will I get?

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Do you think, in prison?
How long might I get?

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So, it's very simple.

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We stick her in one room,
stick him in another,

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and we play them off.

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Bottom line, Anne, the more
honest you are with us,

00:02:03.602 --> 00:02:07.282
the more information you can give us
about what actually happened here,

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the quicker we'll have
all this sorted. OK?

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Yes. Good.

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And so we are interviewing her at
the same time as speaking to you,

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which means any answers you give
us, we'll be checking with her

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to see if they tally
up and vice versa,

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does that make sense?

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Yes. Good.

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Although do bear in mind
that Anne does not have

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a very sophisticated grasp
of financial matters.

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Right. Just the one
brain cell, you see.

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Your wife of 34 years.

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Tell me about it.

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Would you like me to
repeat the question, Anne?

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No, I heard the question.

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When I started the insurance claim,
I still believed him to be dead.

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You took quite a long
time to answer that.

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But she did.

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I'm just wondering
why you hesitated?

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She's answered the question.
Can you move on, please?

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Just remember, Anne,
this is your interview.

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This is your chance to tell
us your side of things.

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He turned up half way through.

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'It's not true.'

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I turned up after
they'd been paid out.

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I thought you said you couldn't
remember when you turned up.

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The specific month, I said.

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But you can
specifically remember

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that it was after the
claim was settled?

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Yes.

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Erm... Which month was
the claim settled, then?

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Ah. Nice try. I don't remember.

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This isn't the "yes,
no" game, John.

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Your wife has already told us
that you never had amnesia.

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She's mistaken. Perhaps
she's forgotten.

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Yes, he told me he'd
faked the whole thing.

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His disappearance? Yes.

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For financial reasons? Yeah.

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Did he tell you where he'd been?

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No. "Around and about," he said.

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For over a year? Y-Yes.

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OK.

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But why didn't you go straight
to the police at that point?

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He said if we went to the police

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we'd have to pay the insurance
money back immediately,

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and then we'd be back
where we'd started.

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Facing bankruptcy? Yes.

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So what was his
plan at this point?

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For me to sell all the other
houses, and then hand himself in

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when we were in a position
to pay the money back.

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OK. And how's that plan going?
Well, I'm here, aren't I?

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I'm not with you. Why else
do you think I returned?

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I don't know, why did you?
To pay the money back.

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Oh, so you've made contact with
the insurance companies, then?

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Well, I would have, if
you hadn't arrested me.

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So it's our fault.
We spoilt your plan?

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You and the press.

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Ah, well, apologies. Accepted.

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Can I just ask, though, John,

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if your plan was to
sell all the properties,

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with the intention of
paying the money back

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when you got straight

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why did you move to Panama?

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No comment.

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And buy a flat there?

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No comment. And a plot of land?

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No comment.

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Well, Anne, why did you
just go along with it?

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Why didn't you tell him it
was wrong and dishonest?

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I should have and.

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I should have told the
boys at that point,

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but he said if I
went to the police,

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he'd tell them I was
in it from the start.

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You were an adult.
You could've refused.

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And I bitterly regret
my decision, but

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he was hard to resist -
John was very forceful.

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Anne.

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Why...

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Why don't you just
tell us the truth?

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You were in on it from
the start, weren't you?

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She's answered the question.
Can you move on, please?

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So the, er, life insurance
policies that you took out

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just three months
before you went missing,

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is that date relevant, John?

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You tell me.

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No, you tell me.
That's how this works.

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Is that date relevant? No.

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No? So it's pure coincidence

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that you took out a life
insurance policy in December 2001,

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which then allowed your wife
to make a very large claim

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just 12 weeks later? Yes.

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Is it also a coincidence that
on a computer hard drive,

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taken from your house soon
after your disappearance,

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we've since found
a downloaded file

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titled "Missing Persons
and Police Investigations"?

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One of the boys must
have downloaded that.

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It was dated a month before
you went missing, John.

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Fair play.

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That's a tricky one.

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OK, I'm now showing
Anne Exhibit AB01,

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which is a copy of a library card,
registered at Hartlepool library,

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in the name of "John Jones".

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Anne, can you tell
me who you see

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on that photo?

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It's John.

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Except this fella has a beard.

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I presume you can
grow a beard? Yes.

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OK, so is that you,
but with a beard?

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Maybe.

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John, I'm asking if you
can identify yourself.

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No comment. OK, well

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perhaps you could read two
things out for me, then.

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The date it was issued
and the address.

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22nd of April 2002.

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Address, Number Four, The
Cliff, Seaton Carew. OK.

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So just four weeks
after you went missing,

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a man who looked
very much like you...

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Ah, yeah, but with
a beard, yeah,

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applies for a library card
and gives your home address.

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But this man's
called John Jones!

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Come on, Anne, he was living at
number four from day one, wasn't he?

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No. And you knew from day one.

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I didn't.

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Were your boys in on it,
too? No, absolutely not.

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Cos our economic crime unit is
finding all sorts of things.

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What things? Money transfers
to Mark and Anthony,

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fake property sales to Mark.

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Basically money laundering,
very serious of fence.

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That was just an
inheritance tax thing.

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Please, they never knew anything
about any of this, please.

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It's interesting how
upset you're getting,

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and I tell you, I do not wanna
have to bring your lads in.

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Please don't.

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The best way to head that off is
for you tell us the whole truth.

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You were in on it from
the start, weren't you?

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No.

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And you knew John was perfectly
fine when you dialled 999

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and said he was missing.

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In fact, I'm surprised the attending
officer didn't see wet footprints

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going up the stairs.

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Am I right?

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No comment.

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'Have a seat.'

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So, we need to have
a talk about bail.

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No. No bail.

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You do understand what
happens now, don't you, Anne?

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Anyone not released on
bail is kept in a prison,

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on remand, until their trial.

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Where would I even go?

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I only have one friend, and
she won't speak to me now.

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Obviously none of my family would
want me, so where would I even go?

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Mind the step.

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Take a seat here,
please. DOOR SLAMS.

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Heya. Hey.

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It's all good,
no-one's followed me.

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I know you think I'm
overreacting but last night

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there were about 50 of
them outside the house.

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Lou's had to go stay
with her parents.

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I've had to check in here.

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So I just spoke to
the police again. And?

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They'll want to interview
us at some point.

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As "witnesses", apparently, now.

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Well, we don't do anything
without a solicitor.

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I'll call my lawyer, shall I

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Uncle Michael's sorting
us out with one.

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How is he?

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Same as all of us.

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I just can't stop
thinking about the

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literally hundreds of times
we went up there, Mark

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to keep her spirits up
whilst we were dying inside.

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'Do you know how it
makes me feel, mate?'

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Makes me really hate her.

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I'm raging about them both, but
at least he only told one lie.

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An evil, horrible one,

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but it was just one.

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'Anne Darwin?'

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'She lied to us every day
for five-and-a-half years.

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'Every single day.'

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You start thinking,

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"Well, if she could lie
so easily about that,"

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"about our actual
dad being dead"

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"what else could she
have lied about?"

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Clothes in here.

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Put your wedding ring in here.

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And then I think, "Wow,
is it all just some"

00:12:05.555 --> 00:12:07.195
"*-up lie?"

00:12:09.195 --> 00:12:10.354
Our family

00:12:11.914 --> 00:12:13.274
our childhood

00:12:16.394 --> 00:12:18.354
our whole life with them?

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Did either of them ever
even genuinely love us?

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So that's me.

00:12:36.632 --> 00:12:38.471
That's where I am, mate.

00:12:40.711 --> 00:12:42.711
'And here I was.

00:12:42.751 --> 00:12:45.311
'Where I'd feared
ending up all my life.

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'Utterly alone.'

00:13:13.467 --> 00:13:15.547
'It's from John.'

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"Dear Dad, just to let you
know, please don't worry."

00:13:22.226 --> 00:13:23.386
Carry on.

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Sorry. That's it.

00:13:32.585 --> 00:13:35.025
'I really don't
think you've given any thought

00:13:35.065 --> 00:13:36.705
'as to what it's like for me.

00:13:36.745 --> 00:13:39.545
'An ex-prison officer in prison.

00:13:39.585 --> 00:13:43.024
'I've had my food spat in, I've
been punched, abused verbally.

00:13:43.064 --> 00:13:44.704
Whatever you think
it's like for you,

00:13:44.744 --> 00:13:46.984
it's so much worse for me.

00:13:47.984 --> 00:13:49.623
'Except it wasn't.

00:13:49.663 --> 00:13:52.103
'John had already
given up his boys once,

00:13:52.143 --> 00:13:53.743
'without a second
thought, really.

00:13:53.783 --> 00:13:57.823
'For me, it felt like my
heart had been ripped out.'

00:13:59.502 --> 00:14:02.942
'My darling son, I
wanted to write you again

00:14:02.982 --> 00:14:07.061
'to tell you how profoundly
sorry I am for what I have done.

00:14:07.101 --> 00:14:10.101
'I will never be able
to explain my actions,

00:14:10.141 --> 00:14:12.701
'because what I did
was as inexplicable

00:14:12.741 --> 00:14:14.461
'as it was unforgiveable.

00:14:15.621 --> 00:14:20.780
'But what I can say is
that I love you so much.

00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:25.099
'I always have loved you,
and I always will love you,

00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:28.099
'even if you never
want to see me again.

00:14:28.139 --> 00:14:30.699
'Which I fully expect
to be the case.'

00:14:47.257 --> 00:14:51.017
'And indeed, despite the dozens
of letters I wrote to them

00:14:51.057 --> 00:14:54.656
'over the next few
months, neither replied.

00:14:55.976 --> 00:14:57.736
'How could I
possibly blame them?

00:14:58.776 --> 00:15:00.056
'And so, finally

00:15:01.135 --> 00:15:05.215
'finally, I realised there
was only one way forward

00:15:05.255 --> 00:15:06.975
'if I ever wanted
to see them again.'

00:15:10.134 --> 00:15:11.334
'I lied.'

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I was in on it from
the very start.

00:15:16.574 --> 00:15:20.293
So you knew, before he
went out in the canoe,

00:15:20.333 --> 00:15:22.573
that he intended to
fake his own death?

00:15:24.453 --> 00:15:25.813
Yes, I did.

00:15:25.853 --> 00:15:28.892
And when you reported him
missing? I knew he was fine.

00:15:28.932 --> 00:15:31.212
In fact, I'd picked him
up from North Gare beach

00:15:31.252 --> 00:15:32.572
about two hours before

00:15:32.612 --> 00:15:34.532
and then driven him
to Durham station,

00:15:34.572 --> 00:15:36.372
where he got the
train to the lakes

00:15:36.412 --> 00:15:38.851
and camped by a stream
for the next three weeks.

00:15:38.891 --> 00:15:41.131
He then came back to Seaton

00:15:41.171 --> 00:15:45.331
and lived between numbers three
and four for the next five years.

00:15:46.730 --> 00:15:48.410
I never wanted to do any of it.

00:15:49.930 --> 00:15:53.370
And I tried constantly
to persuade him not to.

00:15:56.529 --> 00:15:58.049
But I did do it.

00:15:59.689 --> 00:16:01.049
I was in on it

00:16:02.289 --> 00:16:03.529
from the very beginning.

00:16:06.768 --> 00:16:08.608
And I'm very, very sorry.

00:16:34.805 --> 00:16:36.245
OK.

00:16:37.365 --> 00:16:38.605
Yes.

00:16:41.164 --> 00:16:42.564
I faked it all.

00:16:59.562 --> 00:17:01.882
Oh, my God. John.

00:17:07.999 --> 00:17:10.079
I also wanted to tell you

00:17:11.518 --> 00:17:13.918
that I forgive you, Anne.

00:17:13.958 --> 00:17:15.478
I do.

00:17:19.197 --> 00:17:20.237
Call me, Anne!

00:17:34.635 --> 00:17:37.755
'Even harder than
confessing to the police

00:17:37.795 --> 00:17:41.794
'was telling my parents that the
daughter they had always adored

00:17:41.834 --> 00:17:45.954
'had betrayed every single
principle they had ever believed in.

00:17:47.434 --> 00:17:49.874
'I fully expected
them to disown me.

00:17:59.153 --> 00:18:00.232
'But I am guilty.'

00:18:01.832 --> 00:18:04.792
Well, that's what I'm saying, if
we can prove that you were coerced,

00:18:04.832 --> 00:18:06.232
then no, you're not.

00:18:07.312 --> 00:18:09.071
I didn't have to do anything.

00:18:09.111 --> 00:18:11.151
I was an adult, I
made my own choices.

00:18:11.191 --> 00:18:13.071
He never threatened
me or hurt me.

00:18:13.111 --> 00:18:15.871
Physically, no, but emotionally?

00:18:15.911 --> 00:18:18.470
Every day of your life
together, as I understand it,

00:18:18.510 --> 00:18:21.030
and I think I can argue that
that wears a person down,

00:18:21.070 --> 00:18:23.390
day after day year after year,

00:18:23.430 --> 00:18:25.750
till they no longer have
the strength to resist.

00:18:26.909 --> 00:18:30.469
So what would I get? For
a guilty plea, I mean.

00:18:30.509 --> 00:18:33.509
Maybe... three years?

00:18:36.628 --> 00:18:40.988
Four, four-and-a-half if
you go not guilty and lose.

00:18:41.028 --> 00:18:43.708
Which I should stress
is entirely possible.

00:18:43.748 --> 00:18:45.147
It's a tough defence to prove.

00:18:46.947 --> 00:18:48.187
But if it succeeded?

00:18:50.347 --> 00:18:51.947
Well, then you'd walk free.

00:18:55.666 --> 00:18:58.746
'It was a horrible
decision to have to make.

00:18:58.786 --> 00:19:00.506
'And for many weeks,

00:19:00.546 --> 00:19:05.545
'I had absolutely no idea what
the right thing to do was.'

00:19:16.344 --> 00:19:18.904
'And then a few days
before my first hearing,

00:19:18.944 --> 00:19:20.983
'my parents came to see me.

00:19:22.263 --> 00:19:25.023
'These good, good people,

00:19:25.063 --> 00:19:29.063
'my flesh and blood who had
been so shamed and let down,

00:19:29.103 --> 00:19:33.422
'told me whatever I'd
done, they still loved me.

00:19:33.462 --> 00:19:35.782
'That they would
always love me.'

00:19:37.862 --> 00:19:40.981
I'm so scared my parents
will die before I get out.

00:19:43.181 --> 00:19:46.181
And I think, if I
could just see my boys

00:19:47.300 --> 00:19:49.540
talk to them, maybe I could...

00:19:52.780 --> 00:19:55.100
And he did make me
do it, he really did.

00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:58.259
I... I tried to stop
him so many times.

00:19:58.299 --> 00:20:02.019
OK, well, the pre-trial
hearing is in three weeks.

00:20:03.259 --> 00:20:06.218
How do you want to plead?
I want to go not guilty.

00:20:16.317 --> 00:20:18.757
'And then, finally,
the day arrived.

00:20:18.797 --> 00:20:21.596
'I'm not sure what
I was most scared of

00:20:21.636 --> 00:20:26.476
'the trial itself or
seeing my boys in court.

00:20:26.516 --> 00:20:29.835
'A torment John avoided by
already pleading guilty.

00:20:32.875 --> 00:20:34.955
'I was on my own.'

00:20:35.355 --> 00:20:37.875
OK, Anne, it's time.

00:20:37.915 --> 00:20:41.274
'Members of the jury,
the defendant stands before you,

00:20:41.314 --> 00:20:46.474
'charged with 15 counts of
deception and money laundering.

00:20:46.514 --> 00:20:50.473
'Mrs Darwin's defence is
one of marital coercion,

00:20:50.513 --> 00:20:53.833
'but, for this to
succeed, it must be shown

00:20:53.873 --> 00:20:58.312
'that her husband was present each
time an of fence was committed.

00:20:58.352 --> 00:20:59.712
'It is the Crown's submission

00:20:59.752 --> 00:21:03.112
'that not only was her husband
very often not present,

00:21:03.152 --> 00:21:06.031
'but that over a period
of five-and-a-half years,

00:21:06.071 --> 00:21:09.951
'and with multiple
opportunities to end the deceit,

00:21:09.991 --> 00:21:14.230
'she in fact repeatedly offended

00:21:14.270 --> 00:21:18.390
'willingly, individually
and actively.'

00:21:20.230 --> 00:21:21.950
'We will furthermore show

00:21:21.990 --> 00:21:25.749
'that, far from being a
submissive and coerced wife,

00:21:25.789 --> 00:21:30.229
'Mrs Darwin was in fact a
clever and ingenious liar

00:21:30.269 --> 00:21:32.908
'who was able to
effortlessly deceive

00:21:32.948 --> 00:21:35.148
'on an almost industrial scale.

00:21:35.188 --> 00:21:38.268
'To the police, to
the Coroner's Court,

00:21:38.308 --> 00:21:39.988
'to her work friends
and colleagues

00:21:40.028 --> 00:21:44.187
'and, perhaps most shamefully,
to her own children.'

00:21:44.227 --> 00:21:45.587
All rise.

00:21:45.627 --> 00:21:47.347
And lastly, members of the jury,

00:21:47.387 --> 00:21:50.146
as sons, daughters,
mothers yourself,

00:21:50.186 --> 00:21:53.466
I will ask you, when you
look at that infamous photo

00:21:53.506 --> 00:21:55.786
in a Panamanian estate agent,

00:21:55.826 --> 00:21:58.306
if you see a terrified woman,

00:21:58.346 --> 00:22:02.145
coerced in to telling her
children their father was dead,

00:22:02.185 --> 00:22:06.345
or if you see a
devious and wily woman,

00:22:06.385 --> 00:22:09.424
smiling at the
prospect of a new life

00:22:09.464 --> 00:22:11.064
in a tropical paradise,

00:22:11.104 --> 00:22:14.744
paid for with the fruits
of her dreadful fraud.

00:22:15.904 --> 00:22:17.423
It crushed my world.

00:22:18.583 --> 00:22:20.543
Of course it did.

00:22:20.583 --> 00:22:23.023
I loved him. He was...
He was a great dad.

00:22:24.783 --> 00:22:26.982
Crushed my entire world.

00:22:27.022 --> 00:22:30.422
'It might have appeared like I
took control, but I didn't really.'

00:22:30.462 --> 00:22:34.142
It was only ever within the confines
of what he ultimately wanted.

00:22:35.741 --> 00:22:37.781
Are you a good liar, Mrs Darwin?

00:22:37.821 --> 00:22:40.501
I hope not. Well, did
you convince your sons

00:22:40.541 --> 00:22:42.621
for five-and-a-half years
their father was dead?

00:22:43.940 --> 00:22:46.140
Yes. And the police?

00:22:47.140 --> 00:22:48.540
Yes. And the coroner?

00:22:48.580 --> 00:22:50.540
So, you are telling
the court, on oath,

00:22:50.580 --> 00:22:52.859
that he forged your signature?

00:22:54.019 --> 00:22:57.259
He made a footer template
of it on his computer.

00:22:57.299 --> 00:23:01.938
So any letter, any instruction
to a bank or lawyer or whoever,

00:23:01.978 --> 00:23:03.538
he could write it

00:23:03.578 --> 00:23:06.058
and it would appear
to be from you? Yes.

00:23:06.098 --> 00:23:08.258
So, you had no idea at all?

00:23:08.298 --> 00:23:10.578
She told me it was to
do with inheritance tax.

00:23:10.618 --> 00:23:12.457
And you believed her?

00:23:14.217 --> 00:23:15.537
She was my mother.

00:23:16.697 --> 00:23:19.297
And was money
important to him? Yes.

00:23:19.337 --> 00:23:21.376
And the appearance of it? Maybe.

00:23:21.416 --> 00:23:23.016
And your mother?

00:23:23.056 --> 00:23:25.736
Er... I'd always
thought the opposite.

00:23:25.776 --> 00:23:29.175
"I cannot wait to
join you, my darling.

00:23:29.215 --> 00:23:32.255
"Missing you so much."

00:23:32.295 --> 00:23:34.175
"All my love."

00:23:34.215 --> 00:23:36.775
"Kiss, kiss, kiss."

00:23:36.815 --> 00:23:38.654
Who wrote that?

00:23:40.414 --> 00:23:41.734
I did.

00:23:44.454 --> 00:23:47.813
"Generally, I only ever
take her out to vote."

00:23:47.853 --> 00:23:50.053
He actually said that? Yes.

00:23:50.093 --> 00:23:52.293
To a friend of his
in front of you?

00:23:52.333 --> 00:23:55.613
Yes. I think he
thought it was funny.

00:23:55.652 --> 00:23:58.052
Angry, betrayed

00:23:59.812 --> 00:24:01.212
stupid.

00:24:01.252 --> 00:24:03.692
I felt all of that.

00:24:03.732 --> 00:24:08.131
I still do. Every single day,
I... still have very negative...

00:24:08.171 --> 00:24:10.891
Where was John when you
roped your unwitting children

00:24:10.931 --> 00:24:12.411
into laundering money for you?

00:24:12.451 --> 00:24:14.930
He was in Panama.

00:24:14.970 --> 00:24:18.050
My point is that he
wasn't standing over you

00:24:18.090 --> 00:24:19.530
as you spoke to the bank,

00:24:19.570 --> 00:24:22.410
forcing you to commit
a criminal act, was he?

00:24:22.450 --> 00:24:25.849
He didn't need to
actually be in the room.

00:24:25.889 --> 00:24:29.449
He was on the end of an email,
or phone, or just in my head.

00:24:30.769 --> 00:24:32.608
You can fight your
corner, can't you?

00:24:32.648 --> 00:24:33.728
I can now.

00:24:33.768 --> 00:24:35.688
Under immense pressure,
in a public trial.

00:24:35.728 --> 00:24:40.128
But not, apparently, at home
with your non-violent husband.

00:24:42.007 --> 00:24:43.287
You don't know what to think.

00:24:43.327 --> 00:24:46.407
I mean, it took me a long time to
even believe the photo was real,

00:24:46.447 --> 00:24:49.487
that any parent could
have done such a thing.

00:24:49.526 --> 00:24:52.246
It took me a long
time to accept that.

00:24:52.286 --> 00:24:55.486
I'm not even sure I
have. Maybe I never will.

00:24:55.526 --> 00:24:58.885
Can I ask, why didn't
you just leave him?

00:24:58.925 --> 00:25:02.685
This man you claim was
an oppressive bully.

00:25:04.365 --> 00:25:06.645
I wanted to keep
the family together.

00:25:08.284 --> 00:25:10.684
You "wanted to keep
the family together"?

00:25:10.724 --> 00:25:13.324
Oh, the irony, Mrs Darwin.

00:25:14.604 --> 00:25:15.964
And let me ask you this.

00:25:16.004 --> 00:25:19.283
If you hadn't have picked
John up from North Gare,

00:25:19.323 --> 00:25:21.363
if you'd have said
to him on the phone,

00:25:21.403 --> 00:25:24.683
"Oh, I can't go through with this,"
or, "I'm not doing this to my boys,"

00:25:24.723 --> 00:25:27.762
what were you frightened
was going to happen to you

00:25:27.802 --> 00:25:29.402
for disobeying his request?

00:25:29.442 --> 00:25:31.202
Was he going to beat you up? No.

00:25:31.242 --> 00:25:34.162
Were you scared that
when he got home,

00:25:34.202 --> 00:25:37.081
he might manipulate you a bit?

00:25:41.401 --> 00:25:44.320
I was frightened that
he might leave me.

00:25:48.080 --> 00:25:52.959
'The jury took less than four
hours to reach a verdict.'

00:25:52.999 --> 00:25:56.279
I accept that your
husband, John Darwin,

00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:58.239
was the driving force
behind this deceit,

00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:02.318
but you, Anne, although
perhaps initially unconvinced,

00:26:02.358 --> 00:26:06.918
went on to contribute to its success
and play your part very efficiently.

00:26:06.958 --> 00:26:10.198
In my judgment, you
operated as a team,

00:26:10.238 --> 00:26:12.957
each adding something
to the joint venture.

00:26:12.997 --> 00:26:15.557
And it is the duration
of the offending,

00:26:15.597 --> 00:26:17.277
its multi-faceted nature,

00:26:17.317 --> 00:26:21.116
and, in particular, the grief
inflicted over the years

00:26:21.156 --> 00:26:24.596
to the real victims,
your own children,

00:26:24.636 --> 00:26:29.475
that make this a case that merits
a particularly severe sentence.

00:26:29.515 --> 00:26:31.395
Anne Catherine Darwin,

00:26:31.435 --> 00:26:35.475
I sentence you to a term of
six years and six months.

00:26:35.515 --> 00:26:36.995
Take her down.

00:26:42.474 --> 00:26:45.674
'It was three months
longer than John got,

00:26:45.714 --> 00:26:48.313
'but then I was their mother.

00:26:48.353 --> 00:26:52.033
'I think most people felt
I'd got what I deserved.'

00:27:00.312 --> 00:27:02.312
'And so it began.

00:27:02.352 --> 00:27:06.551
'Six years and six
months, minus parole.

00:27:06.791 --> 00:27:09.071
'I tried to keep busy.

00:27:09.111 --> 00:27:10.871
'Keep myself distracted.

00:27:12.351 --> 00:27:18.270
'I continued to write to the boys,
never really expecting a reply.

00:27:18.310 --> 00:27:21.510
'And John continued
to write and call.'

00:27:21.550 --> 00:27:24.229
Look, money's not going
to be an issue, love.

00:27:24.269 --> 00:27:27.229
Trust me. Our story sells.

00:27:27.269 --> 00:27:30.989
'And I wanted to cut him off,
I really did, but it was hard.

00:27:32.188 --> 00:27:36.268
'After 35 years, and with
nothing else in my life,

00:27:36.308 --> 00:27:39.868
'even about a bad future felt
better than none whatsoever.'

00:27:39.908 --> 00:27:41.307
Fear not.

00:27:41.347 --> 00:27:46.547
We play our cards right, we
are going to be sitting pretty.

00:27:52.026 --> 00:27:54.906
'And then eight months
into my time inside,

00:27:54.946 --> 00:27:58.825
'the prison chaplain suggested
I speak to a counsellor

00:27:58.865 --> 00:28:01.865
'because I could not rid
myself of thoughts of death.'

00:28:06.465 --> 00:28:09.064
'What would you like
to get from these sessions?'

00:28:09.104 --> 00:28:12.944
I suppose to wake up every day not
hating myself would be a start.

00:28:14.104 --> 00:28:16.064
And how do you think you
could get to that place?

00:28:19.383 --> 00:28:21.183
Through my family.

00:28:22.463 --> 00:28:23.983
My children.

00:28:25.582 --> 00:28:28.942
By somehow showing them
that this is not who I am,

00:28:28.982 --> 00:28:32.542
that I did a terrible,
terrible thing, but...

00:28:32.582 --> 00:28:35.901
I don't think that
I'm a terrible person.

00:28:39.581 --> 00:28:41.541
I don't expect forgiveness.

00:28:41.581 --> 00:28:45.940
I never expected to be forgiven.
I just ask for second chance.

00:28:45.980 --> 00:28:50.860
To show them that... I could
be a good mother again.

00:28:50.900 --> 00:28:55.139
Be the person I used to
be, or should have been.

00:28:55.179 --> 00:28:56.899
Could may be even still.

00:28:58.419 --> 00:28:59.739
And who was that?

00:29:02.178 --> 00:29:04.218
She was kind, I think.

00:29:06.298 --> 00:29:07.818
And loving.

00:29:09.618 --> 00:29:13.417
With conscience. She
knew right from wrong.

00:29:17.337 --> 00:29:19.336
And she didn't want much.

00:29:20.976 --> 00:29:24.576
A happy family, enough
money to pay the bills.

00:29:26.576 --> 00:29:28.135
A simple life.

00:29:29.855 --> 00:29:33.135
So, how do you get back to her?

00:29:36.775 --> 00:29:38.854
I don't know.

00:29:38.894 --> 00:29:41.374
OK, mate. You take care.

00:29:43.054 --> 00:29:44.694
How is he?

00:29:45.974 --> 00:29:47.053
Angry.

00:29:49.333 --> 00:29:50.693
Sad.

00:29:52.533 --> 00:29:55.812
Laughing about it,
and then... crying.

00:29:58.292 --> 00:29:59.852
* up, basically.

00:30:03.172 --> 00:30:04.291
And you?

00:30:06.211 --> 00:30:08.931
It just feels like
they're both dead.

00:30:13.690 --> 00:30:15.170
I'm not sure I can bear that.

00:30:16.450 --> 00:30:18.490
'I was never a
confident person.'

00:30:19.890 --> 00:30:24.169
When I look back... my
first encounter with him,

00:30:24.209 --> 00:30:27.969
John... was when I
was 14 on the bus.

00:30:29.249 --> 00:30:31.768
And he knocked my
school hat off.

00:30:37.488 --> 00:30:39.808
It was just a silly joke, and.

00:30:41.127 --> 00:30:45.247
I'm sure he didn't mean to,
but... he made me feel stupid.

00:30:47.487 --> 00:30:49.126
More stupid.

00:30:50.566 --> 00:30:54.126
I was already very aware I
wasn't academic, like him.

00:30:55.446 --> 00:30:57.206
But

00:30:57.246 --> 00:31:02.485
maybe that set the
tone, as it were.

00:31:04.485 --> 00:31:07.644
Because he was the
only boy I ever...

00:31:11.484 --> 00:31:13.804
And I went straight
from my parents' house

00:31:13.844 --> 00:31:16.363
to living with him after
we got married, so.

00:31:17.603 --> 00:31:20.123
I never knew anything but him.

00:31:20.163 --> 00:31:24.243
How he spoke to me...
how he regarded me.

00:31:26.162 --> 00:31:30.002
And I think that's
been quite a thing,

00:31:33.082 --> 00:31:35.441
for the last 35 years.

00:31:49.080 --> 00:31:50.320
Anne?

00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:53.359
Hope it's good news.

00:31:53.399 --> 00:31:54.799
Thank you.

00:32:04.118 --> 00:32:06.358
'Dear Mum, I hope you are well

00:32:06.398 --> 00:32:09.318
'and not finding
things too difficult.

00:32:09.358 --> 00:32:12.557
'We are all still trying to
adjust to what has happened,

00:32:12.597 --> 00:32:14.717
'which has not been easy.

00:32:14.757 --> 00:32:16.917
'But I would like
to come and see you,

00:32:16.957 --> 00:32:19.516
'so I'll send a request today.

00:32:19.556 --> 00:32:22.356
'Take care of yourself. Mark.'

00:32:27.116 --> 00:32:28.595
I'm just not there.

00:32:29.635 --> 00:32:32.035
You don't have to apologise.

00:32:35.835 --> 00:32:39.194
Maybe it's the baby,
just... HE EXHALES SHARPLY

00:32:39.234 --> 00:32:41.674
knowing I could never
do anything to hurt him.

00:32:45.114 --> 00:32:47.513
But either way,
I'm just not there.

00:33:32.148 --> 00:33:34.228
Mum?

00:33:51.106 --> 00:33:53.625
We didn't even know
until the trial

00:33:53.665 --> 00:33:55.625
that you'd been in
on it from the start.

00:33:57.025 --> 00:33:58.585
That when you hugged me

00:33:59.865 --> 00:34:01.305
that first night I came up

00:34:02.624 --> 00:34:03.864
you knew!

00:34:03.904 --> 00:34:05.784
I'm so sorry.

00:34:06.984 --> 00:34:09.304
Everything we found out, you
made us find out in public.

00:34:10.664 --> 00:34:12.943
Online, newspapers.

00:34:12.983 --> 00:34:15.223
In a bloody court room, Mam!

00:34:15.263 --> 00:34:17.303
And there is no excuse.

00:34:17.343 --> 00:34:19.143
A reason'd help.

00:34:19.183 --> 00:34:21.622
Why, after everything you'd
done, you still kept lying.

00:34:21.662 --> 00:34:25.262
For the same reason I ever
did, Mark, just the shame.

00:34:25.302 --> 00:34:27.982
The terrible, terrible
guilt and shame I felt.

00:34:28.022 --> 00:34:29.102
So it was about you, is it?

00:34:29.142 --> 00:34:31.141
H-How telling the truth
would make YOU feel?

00:34:31.181 --> 00:34:33.781
I knew it would break
your hearts, love.

00:34:33.821 --> 00:34:36.461
No, no, no, no. No!
No! You don't...

00:34:36.501 --> 00:34:38.820
Don't you dare cry! I'm sorry.

00:34:40.500 --> 00:34:43.020
And I just kept thinking,
hoping, praying,

00:34:43.060 --> 00:34:45.220
all along that there would
be some way I could fix it

00:34:45.260 --> 00:34:47.619
before that had to happen,
but there just never was.

00:34:47.659 --> 00:34:50.099
No, you were probably
too preoccupied

00:34:50.139 --> 00:34:52.019
drinking pina
coladas on the beach!

00:35:12.657 --> 00:35:15.016
'What did you expect?'

00:35:15.056 --> 00:35:18.056
No more than what I got.

00:35:18.096 --> 00:35:21.336
ANNE SNIFFLES But I suppose...

00:35:21.376 --> 00:35:24.735
I thought I might be left
feeling a tiny scrap of hope.

00:35:24.775 --> 00:35:28.695
And again, I know I
don't deserve that, but

00:35:28.735 --> 00:35:31.095
it doesn't stop me
yearning for it.

00:35:34.014 --> 00:35:36.014
It's been so long.

00:35:37.334 --> 00:35:39.614
DOOR BUZZES Am I sorry?

00:35:40.814 --> 00:35:44.053
Well, that I got
caught, yes. Very!

00:35:49.013 --> 00:35:52.892
But seriously, of
course, if what I did

00:35:54.012 --> 00:35:56.412
upset you, then yes.

00:35:56.452 --> 00:35:58.492
Of course I'm sorry.

00:36:01.251 --> 00:36:03.091
Tell me about the
American woman.

00:36:04.451 --> 00:36:06.291
And all the others
you've been writing

00:36:06.331 --> 00:36:07.851
your shabby little letters to.

00:36:18.649 --> 00:36:20.569
'I know what should
be the first step.'

00:36:20.609 --> 00:36:21.889
"Should"?

00:36:21.929 --> 00:36:25.369
Well, because whether I could
actually do it not, I don't know.

00:36:25.409 --> 00:36:28.008
And what are we talking about?

00:36:29.728 --> 00:36:31.448
Leaving him.

00:36:32.608 --> 00:36:34.448
OK.

00:36:34.488 --> 00:36:38.007
And why might you not
be able to do that?

00:36:38.047 --> 00:36:40.087
I find the idea petrifying.

00:36:42.167 --> 00:36:45.486
Despite all the wrongs
you feel he's done you?

00:36:45.526 --> 00:36:46.926
Yes.

00:36:46.966 --> 00:36:51.686
And what specifically is
it that you're scared of?

00:36:52.726 --> 00:36:54.205
Everything.

00:36:56.765 --> 00:37:00.005
I've never lived any part
of my life on my own.

00:37:00.045 --> 00:37:04.324
I wouldn't know how to even
be, who I even am. I mean,

00:37:05.924 --> 00:37:07.964
for my entire adult life,

00:37:08.004 --> 00:37:10.404
I've just been an
extension of him, really.

00:37:11.523 --> 00:37:14.523
Or not even that,
just a nothing.

00:37:14.563 --> 00:37:15.763
Invisible.

00:37:17.003 --> 00:37:19.843
And so starting
again, from scratch

00:37:21.402 --> 00:37:25.322
trying to create a new me
at the age of nearly 60

00:37:26.802 --> 00:37:29.041
it makes me sick
with fear, Grace.

00:37:30.681 --> 00:37:33.601
Slightly different tack.
Does John make you happy?

00:37:33.641 --> 00:37:35.561
He has done at
times in our life.

00:37:35.601 --> 00:37:37.361
I'm not happy now, obviously,

00:37:37.401 --> 00:37:39.800
and haven't been much in
the last ten years or so,

00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:41.480
but before that, yes.

00:37:41.520 --> 00:37:45.240
But on balance? Would you
say he's been good for you?

00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:53.559
He gave me two beautiful sons.

00:37:54.839 --> 00:37:59.198
'I knew what she wanted me to say,
but as ridiculous as it may seem.

00:38:00.438 --> 00:38:03.278
'I just didn't feel strong
enough to be on my own.'

00:38:07.197 --> 00:38:10.557
He's beautiful, mate.
Must have Lou's genes.

00:38:10.597 --> 00:38:12.997
Well, I bloody hope so.

00:38:13.037 --> 00:38:15.356
Wouldn't want too many
of our side in there.

00:38:16.956 --> 00:38:18.916
No, fair enough.

00:38:22.476 --> 00:38:25.275
Flick was just saying you
saw her again last week.

00:38:26.555 --> 00:38:27.755
Yeah.

00:38:30.315 --> 00:38:32.074
And how was it?

00:38:33.914 --> 00:38:35.314
It's still hard.

00:38:36.914 --> 00:38:39.314
I'm not quite sure
what I'm hoping for.

00:38:40.634 --> 00:38:42.073
I think...

00:38:44.593 --> 00:38:46.473
I think I've just
come to the conclusion

00:38:46.513 --> 00:38:48.753
that I'd prefer to have
her in my life than not.

00:38:52.872 --> 00:38:54.392
Dad?

00:38:56.392 --> 00:38:57.992
Harder.

00:39:00.191 --> 00:39:02.031
I'm not sure he really gets it.

00:39:03.111 --> 00:39:04.631
Or ever will.

00:39:08.230 --> 00:39:11.150
So, I wrote to her yesterday.

00:39:14.270 --> 00:39:15.870
Requested a visit.

00:39:17.749 --> 00:39:18.949
OK.

00:39:22.069 --> 00:39:25.429
So... all I'll say

00:39:28.988 --> 00:39:33.428
just don't expect any...
blinding moment of forgiveness.

00:39:33.468 --> 00:39:35.267
Cos my guess is that
ain't gonna happen.

00:39:37.587 --> 00:39:40.907
I think it's just gonna
be this very long, slow

00:39:43.547 --> 00:39:45.266
accommodation.

00:40:14.103 --> 00:40:15.263
Hello, Mam.

00:40:15.303 --> 00:40:17.183
Hello, love. Thank
you so much coming.

00:40:17.223 --> 00:40:18.503
I'm so pleased to see you.

00:40:18.543 --> 00:40:21.342
Well, I couldn't not let you
meet this little fella, could I?

00:40:28.022 --> 00:40:30.461
I don't know what to
say. How old is he?

00:40:30.501 --> 00:40:32.181
He's four months now.

00:40:32.221 --> 00:40:34.501
He's beautiful.

00:40:34.541 --> 00:40:36.701
He takes after his mother.

00:40:36.741 --> 00:40:39.940
Who asked me to say hello and
that she sends you her love.

00:40:39.980 --> 00:40:41.460
That's incredibly kind of her.

00:40:41.500 --> 00:40:44.460
Please send her my love
and huge congratulations.

00:40:47.579 --> 00:40:49.579
Would you like to hold him?

00:40:49.619 --> 00:40:51.139
I would, very much.

00:41:14.136 --> 00:41:16.576
'It was an extraordinary
act of generosity

00:41:17.936 --> 00:41:20.336
'that I didn't deserve.

00:41:20.376 --> 00:41:22.216
'And it finally
gave me the strength

00:41:22.256 --> 00:41:25.495
'to do what I had needed
to do for so long.'

00:41:33.734 --> 00:41:34.814
Hello?

00:41:34.854 --> 00:41:36.694
What the hell's going on?

00:41:36.734 --> 00:41:39.774
You've stopped writing. You
haven't been taking my calls.

00:41:39.814 --> 00:41:41.333
Why?

00:41:41.373 --> 00:41:43.253
You don't make me happy, John.

00:41:44.333 --> 00:41:47.093
I think you haven't
for many years.

00:41:47.133 --> 00:41:48.533
You don't hear me.

00:41:48.573 --> 00:41:51.372
'You don't listen to me...'
That is total rubbish, Anne.

00:41:51.412 --> 00:41:53.772
'You don't know what you're...'
You're not listening now.

00:41:53.812 --> 00:41:57.572
Just stop talking, please. Just
stop always talking and listen.

00:41:58.611 --> 00:42:01.291
But much more important
than any of that,

00:42:01.331 --> 00:42:04.371
I don't think you love me, John.

00:42:04.411 --> 00:42:05.971
I do.

00:42:06.011 --> 00:42:08.490
I do love you, Anne, very much.

00:42:09.850 --> 00:42:12.450
Or why would I have stayed
with you for all these years?

00:42:14.690 --> 00:42:16.769
'Don't do this.'

00:42:16.809 --> 00:42:20.689
Don't throw 36 years and
two smashing boys away.

00:42:20.729 --> 00:42:23.449
'We can be happy again.'

00:42:23.489 --> 00:42:25.448
I promise we can.

00:42:25.488 --> 00:42:27.768
No.

00:42:27.808 --> 00:42:30.608
I don't think you do love me.

00:42:30.648 --> 00:42:34.287
Or maybe you just don't
know what proper love is.

00:42:34.327 --> 00:42:35.927
Please.

00:42:35.967 --> 00:42:40.207
And either way... I
don't love you any more.

00:42:40.247 --> 00:42:41.927
You've hurt me too much.

00:42:41.967 --> 00:42:44.606
You do love me. 'No.'

00:42:47.046 --> 00:42:50.486
No, I don't. And
I want a divorce.

00:43:10.803 --> 00:43:13.963
'About eight months
before my release,

00:43:14.003 --> 00:43:16.443
'I was transferred
to an open prison

00:43:16.483 --> 00:43:19.842
'to help prepare me for
my return to normal life.

00:43:21.482 --> 00:43:27.282
'And then in March 2011, a
few days shy of nine years

00:43:27.322 --> 00:43:30.481
'since John had
paddled out to sea,

00:43:30.521 --> 00:43:33.841
'I was released to a
halfway house in Leeds.

00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:41.240
'I was finally free.

00:43:48.519 --> 00:43:51.599
'I'm not sure I'll
ever truly understand

00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:53.839
'why I made the choices I did.

00:43:53.879 --> 00:43:58.278
'It was, as my counsellor
said, complicated.

00:44:00.038 --> 00:44:01.798
'My children still struggle

00:44:01.838 --> 00:44:05.277
'and will certainly never be able
to forget what I did to them,

00:44:05.317 --> 00:44:06.677
'nor should they.

00:44:07.957 --> 00:44:09.997
'We all know we're on a journey

00:44:10.037 --> 00:44:12.277
'that will last the
rest of our lives,

00:44:13.916 --> 00:44:16.276
'but we are at least
on that journey.

00:44:17.596 --> 00:44:19.876
'And for that gift,

00:44:19.916 --> 00:44:22.555
'I remain more grateful to them

00:44:22.595 --> 00:44:25.635
'than it will ever be
possible to express.

00:44:32.074 --> 00:44:37.114
'They say the opposite of love
is not hate, but indifference,

00:44:37.154 --> 00:44:40.313
'which is what I now
feel for my ex-husband.

00:44:44.313 --> 00:44:46.673
'But I wish him well

00:44:46.713 --> 00:44:49.152
'and sincerely hope
that he finds happiness.

00:44:51.072 --> 00:44:52.752
'I will try to do the same.

00:44:54.792 --> 00:44:59.031
'I will also keep
trying to find me.'