WEBVTT 00:00:13.600 --> 00:00:17.599 These are 12 ordinary people with 12 ordinary lives 00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:20.559 and we need to persuade them that you loved Claire, 00:00:20.560 --> 00:00:22.839 that you would never do anything to hurt her. 00:00:22.840 --> 00:00:24.319 Your phone, pin and any passwords. 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:26.119 You need to get out of my room. This is my private space. 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:28.359 You have no privacy while you are a minor, 00:00:28.360 --> 00:00:30.279 living under the roof that I pay for. 00:00:31.400 --> 00:00:32.439 I had an assignment due. 00:00:32.440 --> 00:00:34.159 Did you hand it in? Nah, I missed the deadline. 00:00:34.160 --> 00:00:36.759 Maybe this is actually the reason why you keep missing deadlines. 00:00:36.760 --> 00:00:38.759 Nathan is pressuring amita to lie. 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:41.799 The way to get justice is to avoid a mistrial. 00:00:41.800 --> 00:00:44.479 Stay away from court until we call you. 00:00:44.480 --> 00:00:47.079 My parents are dead. 00:00:47.080 --> 00:00:49.719 What do you reckon about having your entire debt cleared? 00:00:49.720 --> 00:00:51.839 All you have to do is secure an acquittal. 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:54.919 Nah, mate, I'll... I'll go to * jail. 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:57.879 You've just taken a bribe for information on your jury mates. 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.919 Kate Lawson walks free, so do you. 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:03.479 Belinda bain was a 14-year-old assault victim. 00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:05.919 It would be illegal for the press to make reference to that case, 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:07.519 even after 30 years. 00:01:07.520 --> 00:01:08.919 She was already dead. 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:12.440 Are you telling me Kate Lawson killed belinda bain? 00:01:22.880 --> 00:01:24.399 He made me do stuff. 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:26.120 Stuff I didn't want to do. 00:01:28.800 --> 00:01:30.599 It's all my fault! 00:01:33.320 --> 00:01:35.119 I've got something! 00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:37.480 So, yeah, I know that I * up but... 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:46.519 Good girl. 00:01:46.520 --> 00:01:48.279 We were taking photos. 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:49.520 It's all my fault. 00:02:48.860 --> 00:02:52.859 Doctor kantor, was your lab able to identify the brown substance 00:02:52.860 --> 00:02:55.459 found on the corner of Kate Lawson's artwork? 00:02:55.460 --> 00:02:57.459 Ah, yes, it was dried blood. 00:02:57.460 --> 00:02:58.859 And was it human blood? 00:02:58.860 --> 00:03:00.059 Yes. 00:03:00.060 --> 00:03:02.779 And were you able to identify whose blood it was? 00:03:02.780 --> 00:03:06.339 We identified two separate DNA profiles. 00:03:06.340 --> 00:03:09.179 The one on the right matched with Claire Spears 00:03:09.180 --> 00:03:11.259 and the one on the left with Kate Lawson. 00:03:11.260 --> 00:03:14.579 And what about exhibits o, p and q? 00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:18.419 The blood spatters found on the studio work table? 00:03:18.420 --> 00:03:22.899 Ah, yes, exhibit o also returned DNA matches for Claire Spears. 00:03:22.900 --> 00:03:25.339 Exhibit p matched with Kate Lawson, 00:03:25.340 --> 00:03:27.659 and exhibit q matched the dead crow 00:03:27.660 --> 00:03:29.859 found in the bush outside her studio. 00:03:29.860 --> 00:03:33.340 Did your analysis reveal anything about how that crow was killed? 00:03:35.180 --> 00:03:37.379 As you can see in the photos, 00:03:37.380 --> 00:03:39.859 these are very limited trace samples. 00:03:39.860 --> 00:03:43.499 Was there anything else found in these blood samples? 00:03:43.500 --> 00:03:45.319 Yes, we found strong traces 00:03:45.320 --> 00:03:47.140 of sodium hypochlorite. 00:03:47.140 --> 00:03:48.339 What is that? Yeah, sure. 00:03:48.340 --> 00:03:50.419 It's a bleaching agent. 00:03:50.420 --> 00:03:53.579 You can find it in a lot of household cleaning products. 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:56.179 But we determined this was not a commercial product. 00:03:56.180 --> 00:03:58.099 How did you come to that conclusion? 00:03:58.100 --> 00:04:01.659 In commercial applications, it's heavily diluted. 00:04:01.660 --> 00:04:04.819 It's about a 3% to 8% solution. 00:04:04.820 --> 00:04:07.299 What we found in these samples 00:04:07.300 --> 00:04:09.779 was highly concentrated, about 12%. 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:14.019 So, what does the presence of highly concentrated bleach in these samples 00:04:14.020 --> 00:04:15.699 suggest to you? 00:04:15.700 --> 00:04:18.459 That ms Lawson's studio had been thoroughly cleaned 00:04:18.460 --> 00:04:20.219 with industrial-grade bleach. 00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:22.379 And this industrial-grade bleach, 00:04:22.380 --> 00:04:26.419 was it found in any other samples in ms Lawson's studio? 00:04:26.420 --> 00:04:28.140 Ah, yes, on the wheelbarrow. 00:05:07.980 --> 00:05:11.259 ..The blood found 00:05:11.260 --> 00:05:14.739 in the blade from exhibit l? 00:05:14.740 --> 00:05:16.539 Yes, we did. 00:05:16.540 --> 00:05:19.379 And was that animal or human blood? 00:05:19.380 --> 00:05:20.419 Human. 00:05:20.420 --> 00:05:23.339 And could you determine whose blood it was? 00:05:23.340 --> 00:05:26.379 Yes, it matched Claire Spears' DNA profile. 00:05:26.380 --> 00:05:28.699 Did your lab conduct any other analysis 00:05:28.700 --> 00:05:32.659 of Claire's blood sample that was found on this particular blade? 00:05:32.660 --> 00:05:34.779 We tried to date the sample, 00:05:34.780 --> 00:05:38.499 using a technique called, "raman spectroscopic probing." 00:05:38.500 --> 00:05:40.019 And what did you find? 00:05:40.020 --> 00:05:42.259 We concluded that the blood sample could be dated 00:05:42.260 --> 00:05:45.299 to within a month of Claire's disappearance. 00:05:52.780 --> 00:05:55.379 My cousin killed birds when we were kids. 00:05:55.380 --> 00:05:58.179 He turned out to be a total spaz. 00:05:58.180 --> 00:06:00.699 Trevor, you cannot say that word. 00:06:00.700 --> 00:06:02.539 What? Why not? 00:06:02.540 --> 00:06:04.259 Because it's offensive. 00:06:04.260 --> 00:06:05.619 It's a free country. 00:06:05.620 --> 00:06:08.299 He can use whatever word he wants. 00:06:08.300 --> 00:06:11.500 He can, and I'm free to tell him it's offensive. 00:06:24.340 --> 00:06:26.059 Yeah, look, I know he stresses you out, 00:06:26.060 --> 00:06:28.339 but that's what teachers do. 00:06:28.340 --> 00:06:29.860 Look, I promise that I will... 00:06:31.780 --> 00:06:35.379 No, I told you I've given up. 00:06:35.380 --> 00:06:36.419 I know, I don't. 00:06:36.420 --> 00:06:38.459 Not even those patches, just the nicotine gum. 00:06:38.460 --> 00:06:40.259 Listen, I've got to go back inside. 00:06:40.260 --> 00:06:41.979 I promise we can... 00:06:41.980 --> 00:06:43.779 We will talk about it in the morning. 00:06:52.380 --> 00:06:54.099 Sorry, I didn't mean to bother you. 00:06:54.100 --> 00:06:59.379 It's just the only place outside I can still get the court Wi-Fi. 00:07:01.420 --> 00:07:03.139 You should nap. 00:07:03.140 --> 00:07:06.699 If you keep falling asleep in court, they'll kick you off the jury. 00:07:06.700 --> 00:07:07.700 Yeah, right. 00:07:09.980 --> 00:07:11.459 You ok? 00:07:11.460 --> 00:07:12.580 Why wouldn't I be? 00:07:22.740 --> 00:07:23.860 * you! 00:07:25.580 --> 00:07:26.580 What's wrong? 00:07:28.460 --> 00:07:29.460 Nothing. 00:07:44.340 --> 00:07:46.459 Cute tatt. 00:07:46.460 --> 00:07:48.819 You wouldn't say that if it was your daughter. 00:07:48.820 --> 00:07:52.339 Actually, Simon, I would. 00:07:52.340 --> 00:07:53.739 Hey, that expert witness, 00:07:53.740 --> 00:07:56.939 she didn't say that Kate actually killed that bird, did she? 00:07:56.940 --> 00:07:59.019 What other explanation is there? 00:07:59.020 --> 00:08:00.739 She might have found it already dead in the bush. 00:08:00.740 --> 00:08:01.779 Yeah, yeah. 00:08:01.780 --> 00:08:03.659 Maybe she just brought it into the studio already dead, 00:08:03.660 --> 00:08:05.099 'cause she was photographing it. 00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:07.739 Yep, bringing dead animals home? I don't know that's any better. 00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:10.979 What sort of person would use their own blood in their artwork? 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:12.619 Or their niece's, for that matter. 00:08:12.620 --> 00:08:14.899 Just because she's a bit unconventional in her art, 00:08:14.900 --> 00:08:16.419 that doesn't mean she's mentally unstable. 00:08:16.420 --> 00:08:17.459 Yeah, but for some, 00:08:17.460 --> 00:08:19.659 asking Claire to put a bloody thumbprint on her artwork 00:08:19.660 --> 00:08:22.059 could suggest a violent, disturbed mind. 00:08:22.060 --> 00:08:23.820 Yeah, but you would say that, wouldn't you? 00:08:26.220 --> 00:08:28.459 What's that supposed to mean? 00:08:28.460 --> 00:08:31.219 Oh, I'm just saying you might not be able to be objective about this, 00:08:31.220 --> 00:08:35.219 considering your personal history. 00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:38.699 Judge is ready for you. 00:08:38.700 --> 00:08:40.020 You're due back in court. 00:08:53.740 --> 00:08:55.899 I brought my running gear today. 00:08:55.900 --> 00:08:57.859 Mr Colby, we are ready to proceed. 00:08:57.860 --> 00:08:58.860 You ok? 00:09:00.620 --> 00:09:02.659 As you please, your honour. 00:09:02.660 --> 00:09:04.179 * that guy. 00:09:04.180 --> 00:09:07.459 Doctor kantor, in her police statement, 00:09:07.460 --> 00:09:10.459 ms Lawson testified to a number of industrial chemicals 00:09:10.460 --> 00:09:12.219 in her studio, 00:09:12.220 --> 00:09:14.699 explaining that she was experimenting with them 00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:18.179 to see how they reacted with photographic paper, 00:09:18.180 --> 00:09:19.459 including... 00:09:19.460 --> 00:09:22.300 Can we bring up exhibit r, please? 00:09:25.260 --> 00:09:26.459 Is that the same chemical 00:09:26.460 --> 00:09:28.899 that you found in the blood samples from the work table? 00:09:28.900 --> 00:09:30.019 Yes. 00:09:30.020 --> 00:09:31.579 And if that bottle spilt, 00:09:31.580 --> 00:09:34.820 would that explain its presence in the blood samples? 00:09:36.380 --> 00:09:39.539 I suppose, technically, that's possible, yes. 00:09:39.540 --> 00:09:43.179 Now did you find any evidence of sodium hypochlorite 00:09:43.180 --> 00:09:45.619 on the retractable blade? 00:09:45.620 --> 00:09:47.699 That's exhibit l. 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:48.739 No. 00:09:48.740 --> 00:09:51.059 So, was no attempt made to clean the blade? 00:09:51.060 --> 00:09:52.179 Not that we found. 00:09:52.180 --> 00:09:54.779 Is it possible that the blood was put on the blade 00:09:54.780 --> 00:09:58.299 at the same time as the thumbprints were made? 00:09:58.300 --> 00:10:01.019 There's no way for us to determine that. 00:10:01.020 --> 00:10:02.579 Very well. 00:10:02.580 --> 00:10:04.179 Now doctor kantor, 00:10:04.180 --> 00:10:08.379 of all the swabs that were submitted by the police to your lab, 00:10:08.380 --> 00:10:12.099 how many came from ms Lawson's home? 00:10:12.100 --> 00:10:15.099 I would say 90% of them. 00:10:15.100 --> 00:10:16.499 What was the other 10%? 00:10:16.500 --> 00:10:19.939 We received additional swabs from the passenger seat, 00:10:19.940 --> 00:10:22.499 backseat and boot of ms Lawson's car. 00:10:22.500 --> 00:10:24.739 Did you find any blood in those samples? 00:10:24.740 --> 00:10:25.859 No. 00:10:25.860 --> 00:10:29.419 Did you test any swabs from Nathan Spears' home? 00:10:29.420 --> 00:10:30.459 No. 00:10:30.460 --> 00:10:33.859 Did you test any swabs from Nathan Spears' place of work? 00:10:33.860 --> 00:10:34.899 No. 00:10:34.900 --> 00:10:36.539 Did you test any swabs 00:10:36.540 --> 00:10:39.299 from the passenger seat of Nathan Spears' car? 00:10:39.300 --> 00:10:42.619 No. Why are we talking about Nathan Spears? 00:10:42.620 --> 00:10:44.179 I'm sorry, your honour, does... 00:10:44.180 --> 00:10:45.859 Does my learned colleague 00:10:45.860 --> 00:10:47.539 need a moment or two? 00:10:47.540 --> 00:10:51.659 I'd hate for her to miss this important line of inquiry. 00:10:51.660 --> 00:10:52.899 Madam crown? 00:10:52.900 --> 00:10:54.499 On the contrary, your honour. 00:10:54.500 --> 00:10:57.000 I was just admiring my learned 00:10:57.001 --> 00:10:59.501 colleague's line of inquiry. 00:10:59.500 --> 00:11:01.259 Thank you, madam crown. 00:11:01.260 --> 00:11:04.059 It seems you can continue, mr Colby. 00:11:04.060 --> 00:11:05.820 With pleasure, your honour. 00:11:07.460 --> 00:11:10.339 Doctor kantor, did you test any swabs 00:11:10.340 --> 00:11:13.819 from the backseat of Nathan Spears' car? 00:11:13.820 --> 00:11:14.859 No. 00:11:14.860 --> 00:11:18.339 Did you test swabs from the driver's seat of Nathan Spears' car? 00:11:18.340 --> 00:11:19.379 No. 00:11:19.380 --> 00:11:21.979 Did you test swabs from the boot of Nathan Spears car? 00:11:21.980 --> 00:11:23.179 Obviously, no. 00:11:23.180 --> 00:11:24.419 Why do you say, "obviously?" 00:11:24.420 --> 00:11:28.219 I mean, the evidence we were asked to analyse 00:11:28.220 --> 00:11:32.420 obviously focussed on Kate Lawson as the primary suspect. 00:11:36.100 --> 00:11:37.739 Thank you, doctor kantor. 00:11:37.740 --> 00:11:39.300 You've been very helpful. 00:11:44.060 --> 00:11:46.299 Colby. 00:11:46.300 --> 00:11:49.379 We'll be moving Nathan Spears up the witness list. 00:11:50.980 --> 00:11:54.899 Yeah, I thought I heard Jenny say something about a shit sandwich. 00:11:54.900 --> 00:11:56.539 Well, I figure if we give you the man himself, 00:11:56.540 --> 00:11:59.939 you may not need to badger our other witnesses so much about him. 00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:02.619 Just doing the best for my client. 00:12:02.620 --> 00:12:06.180 And my best is rather good, don't you think? 00:12:08.860 --> 00:12:10.139 Did he just wink at me? 00:12:10.140 --> 00:12:12.819 ..Today's proceedings being a case of the defence, 00:12:12.820 --> 00:12:15.339 once again, pointing out the police failure 00:12:15.340 --> 00:12:18.019 to investigate Claire Spears' father, Nathan... 00:12:18.020 --> 00:12:22.379 ..And his possible role in her disappearance or murder. 00:12:22.380 --> 00:12:24.579 There's a reason the cops didn't swab your car. 00:12:24.580 --> 00:12:26.779 You were never a * suspect. 00:12:26.780 --> 00:12:27.859 I know that. 00:12:29.580 --> 00:12:32.139 How are you this calm? 00:12:32.140 --> 00:12:33.419 I got nothing to hide. 00:12:33.420 --> 00:12:35.899 Diane's at court every day, 00:12:35.900 --> 00:12:39.859 whispering to journalists, spreading lies about you. 00:12:41.380 --> 00:12:44.060 We have to go back... 00:12:45.900 --> 00:12:47.519 Ok. 00:12:47.680 --> 00:12:51.919 Professor Porter, you didn't Mark my essay. 00:12:51.920 --> 00:12:53.359 You missed the deadline, jarrod. 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:56.079 It's an automatic not complete... It wasn't even that late. 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:59.439 If you want to appeal the grade, you have to go through the school. 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:01.719 You want me to go through the uni's bureaucratic bullshit? 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:03.079 Why can't you just do it? 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:05.519 I think it's pretty rich of you to come storming in here 00:13:05.520 --> 00:13:07.559 and expect me to fix everything. 00:13:07.560 --> 00:13:10.239 You missed three of my lectures 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:12.879 and you didn't submit your essay on time... 00:13:12.880 --> 00:13:14.279 Yeah but... And now you're expecting me 00:13:14.280 --> 00:13:18.039 to, what, wave a magic wand and make everything ok for you? 00:13:18.040 --> 00:13:19.959 I'm just asking for some * consideration 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:23.039 for the things that were out of my control! 00:13:23.040 --> 00:13:24.959 He bothering you, miss? It's ok. 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:25.999 You know what's bothered me? 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:27.639 Your assumption that I'm bothering her. 00:13:27.640 --> 00:13:29.079 Alright son, time to go. 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:30.319 Yeah, I'm not your son. 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:31.359 Get the * off me! 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:33.039 Whoa! Jarrod, for god's sake! 00:13:33.040 --> 00:13:34.799 Sir, he's not bothering me. 00:13:34.800 --> 00:13:36.319 It's ok. 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:37.479 You sure, miss? 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:40.879 Yes, I'm sure. 00:13:40.880 --> 00:13:42.080 Off with you, then. 00:13:52.680 --> 00:13:55.719 They keep giving me bloody broken remote. 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:56.959 Hmm? 00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:58.239 Papa, which channel? 00:13:58.240 --> 00:13:59.520 The footy. 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:04.079 ! Contract. 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.279 Where it is? 00:14:17.800 --> 00:14:20.319 To the Chinese guys, remember? 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:22.040 Yeah, yeah. 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:48.360 She's not. 00:14:55.520 --> 00:14:57.999 Because she's been dead for eight years, dad. 00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.120 * hell, Lex. 00:15:02.880 --> 00:15:04.519 What do you want me to say? 00:15:04.520 --> 00:15:05.639 I'm not going to lie to him. 00:15:05.640 --> 00:15:07.319 You don't have to. 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:09.799 Just don't tell him every * ugly truth. 00:15:09.800 --> 00:15:10.800 It's cruel. 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:19.960 A tattoo is going to haunt her for the rest of her life, em. 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:22.959 Where is she, anyway? 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:24.039 I don't know. 00:15:24.040 --> 00:15:27.079 She said something about the Rose and crown? 00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:28.439 You let her take the car to a pub? 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:31.440 It's not a pub, it's some shop in Dee why. 00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:06.239 Right? 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.079 Alice, don't forget your racquet, ok? 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:10.519 You right? Got your drink bottle? 00:16:10.520 --> 00:16:12.479 Gabby's picking you up after school, ok? 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:13.799 Bye! 00:16:13.800 --> 00:16:15.159 Ok, love you guys! 00:16:15.160 --> 00:16:16.160 Bye. 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:27.959 Tahlia, hi. 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:28.999 Sam. 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:30.559 I didn't realise you were the officer on this. 00:16:30.560 --> 00:16:31.839 Always good to see you. 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:34.319 You're a solid expert witness. Thanks. 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:39.039 Sam, I don't understand why we can't talk about the dokic case. 00:16:39.040 --> 00:16:42.159 I mean, it seems to be extremely relevant to Kate's state of mind 00:16:42.160 --> 00:16:43.599 at the time of the disappearance. 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:45.879 Yeah. Ah... 00:16:45.880 --> 00:16:47.799 The judge ruled it prejudicial. 00:16:47.800 --> 00:16:49.919 When I read the transcripts of the first trial, 00:16:49.920 --> 00:16:52.439 particularly the first police interview, 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:53.559 I mean, well, it's clear to me 00:16:53.560 --> 00:16:55.880 that she's re-enacting that specific trauma. 00:16:57.760 --> 00:16:59.040 Yeah, right. 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:02.879 Anyway, I'll convey what I can. 00:17:02.880 --> 00:17:04.040 I hope it helps. 00:17:08.360 --> 00:17:11.199 Ms Lawson said in her police statement 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:15.319 that she was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. 00:17:15.320 --> 00:17:18.519 Could you explain to the jury what that is, please. 00:17:18.520 --> 00:17:21.639 Our current definition of borderline personality disorder 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:24.719 is a pervasive pattern of instability of relationships, 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.319 image, mood and impulsive behaviour. 00:17:27.320 --> 00:17:31.759 Does the disorder diminish a person's capacity to reason? 00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:36.079 No, I'd say it's more of an emotion deregulation disorder. 00:17:36.080 --> 00:17:40.079 But it's important to note that bpd ranges vastly in its severity. 00:17:40.080 --> 00:17:43.719 People with this disorder can be extremely high functioning 00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:47.119 and these personality types can have very attractive qualities, too. 00:17:47.120 --> 00:17:52.719 They're often spontaneous, imaginative, charismatic, creative. 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:58.279 Could you please explain this aspect of the bpd diagnostic criteria, 00:17:58.280 --> 00:18:03.119 "intense relationships with idealisation and devaluation?" 00:18:03.120 --> 00:18:04.840 Well we often call this 00:18:04.841 --> 00:18:06.560 phenomena "splitting." 00:18:06.560 --> 00:18:09.239 Bpd sufferers will swing between idealising 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:11.199 and being completely infatuated with the person, 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.199 and then suddenly hating and vilifying them. 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:17.399 So, would you expect a sufferer to experience 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:20.360 unstable and intense personal relationships? 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:23.079 That's likely, yeah. 00:18:23.080 --> 00:18:24.879 And what about outbursts of anger? 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:26.479 That's also very likely. 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:30.479 Is there any consensus as to what causes this disorder? 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:34.039 The aetiology is presumed to be disrupted forms of attachment 00:18:34.040 --> 00:18:36.759 in childhood and early adulthood. 00:18:36.760 --> 00:18:40.039 Individuals with bpd typically suffered chronic forms 00:18:40.040 --> 00:18:42.199 of emotional neglect or abuse. 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:45.640 But there is evidence to suggest it is an inherited trait. 00:18:52.280 --> 00:18:53.319 Yeah, I don't know... 00:18:53.320 --> 00:18:56.279 Yeah, it was like a full-on like killing, 00:18:56.280 --> 00:19:00.159 and it was in 'the daily telegraph' for like, for a week. 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:01.719 So, yeah. 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:03.519 I can't believe you guys don't know about it. 00:19:03.520 --> 00:19:05.399 I can't even imagine. Poor corrie. 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:06.999 Yeah, it's pretty brutal, hey? 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:08.639 That's an... 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:09.679 That's an awful story 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:11.879 and to happen in her own home, as well. 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:13.719 Garry. 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:15.599 What are you doing? 00:19:15.600 --> 00:19:17.079 You shouldn't be telling people that. 00:19:17.080 --> 00:19:18.839 Why not, mate? I mean, it was in the news. 00:19:18.840 --> 00:19:20.399 You can Google it. And it affects us. 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:22.039 How the * does it affect you, garry? 00:19:22.040 --> 00:19:24.759 Her parents were offed by a violent psycho. 00:19:24.760 --> 00:19:27.999 How can she be a juror in a murder trial? 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:29.360 Have a think about it. 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:44.280 Does anyone other than garry think that I shouldn't be on this jury? 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:48.160 No? 00:19:51.600 --> 00:19:54.319 What about that I should no longer be jury foreperson? 00:19:54.320 --> 00:19:57.799 Well, I think it could be worth a vote, just to clear the air. 00:19:57.800 --> 00:19:58.839 Ok. 00:19:58.840 --> 00:20:01.799 Well, farrad, you did put your hand up for it earlier, so... 00:20:01.800 --> 00:20:03.679 That's right. Oh, no, no, no, no. 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:05.319 I think corrie's a wonderful foreperson. 00:20:05.320 --> 00:20:06.839 I agree. She's been great. 00:20:06.840 --> 00:20:08.559 And what about you, garry? 00:20:08.560 --> 00:20:10.599 Since you're the one with all the concerns. 00:20:10.600 --> 00:20:11.639 Yeah, no, as I said, 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:12.999 I don't think it can hurt to take a vote. 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:14.079 Let's take a vote. 00:20:14.080 --> 00:20:15.199 Ok, great, yeah. 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:16.519 Let's vote. 00:20:16.520 --> 00:20:21.159 Ok, all in favour of garry replacing corrie as foreperson. 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:23.239 It's ridiculous! 00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:24.279 Tea? 00:20:24.280 --> 00:20:25.719 Thank you. Come on guys, put your hands up. 00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:28.119 Don't be shy. Yeah, come on guys. 00:20:28.120 --> 00:20:30.439 If you want to vote me out of this symbolic position 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:33.000 because I'm such a traumatised mess, be my guest. 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:37.199 Ok. 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:39.159 All those in favour of corrie 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.520 staying in this completely symbolic position. 00:20:44.280 --> 00:20:45.759 Aye. Aye. 00:20:45.760 --> 00:20:47.279 Aye. Aye. 00:20:47.280 --> 00:20:48.759 Can we leave it at that? 00:20:48.760 --> 00:20:49.920 Lunch, folks. 00:21:06.840 --> 00:21:09.280 Keep that up and I'll soon be able to match your pace. 00:21:13.120 --> 00:21:15.359 Would you just... 00:21:15.360 --> 00:21:16.560 ..Calm down? 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:21.680 Sorry? 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:29.000 I don't need you to keep checking in or defending me in there. 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.439 We're grown ups. We *. 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:35.440 It doesn't need to be more complicated than that. 00:21:39.520 --> 00:21:41.080 Ok, I get it, yeah. 00:21:43.040 --> 00:21:45.719 Uncomplicated. 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:46.960 Good. 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:14.760 I need help! 00:22:29.120 --> 00:22:32.439 Borderline personality disorder. 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:35.599 I'm sure this is something very few of us here are familiar with. 00:22:35.600 --> 00:22:38.319 I'm interested in the terminology here, "borderline." 00:22:38.320 --> 00:22:42.799 By "borderline," do you mean, borderline not much of a thing? 00:22:42.800 --> 00:22:44.319 It's a recognised condition. 00:22:44.320 --> 00:22:47.399 Or perhaps arguable, arguable as in, 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:50.279 I myself have been described as borderline genius, 00:22:50.280 --> 00:22:53.079 but that's at best arguable. 00:22:54.120 --> 00:22:56.439 But let's agree that it is a thing. 00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:58.679 How common is it? 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:01.119 Well, it's actually the most commonly diagnosed disorder 00:23:01.120 --> 00:23:02.239 in Australia. 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:04.719 Really? 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:07.479 It's 4% of the population. 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:08.480 4%? 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:14.199 So, the sufferers of this bpd, 00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:18.719 are they more likely to self-harm or harm others? 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:20.959 Well, I don't see a difference between the two. 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:22.079 When you harm yourself, 00:23:22.080 --> 00:23:23.599 you're also harming the people around you. 00:23:23.600 --> 00:23:25.200 I'd like an answer. Which is it? 00:23:27.120 --> 00:23:28.159 Self-harm. 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:32.479 And is this likelihood significant or is it borderline? 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:33.839 It's significant. 00:23:33.840 --> 00:23:37.400 People with bpd are at much higher risk of harming themselves. 00:23:44.120 --> 00:23:45.599 Hey. 00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:46.959 Stand there. 00:23:56.080 --> 00:23:58.240 Are these to impress your sleazebag boyfriend? 00:24:00.280 --> 00:24:01.839 Shut up! Whoa! 00:24:03.760 --> 00:24:07.119 People with bpd have issues with a lack of self-control. 00:24:07.120 --> 00:24:10.079 They're highly vulnerable to act on impulse without much forethought. 00:24:10.080 --> 00:24:11.159 So they're impulsive. 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:13.599 Does that mean that they're less likely to have the capacity 00:24:13.600 --> 00:24:15.680 to make long-term plans? 00:24:17.760 --> 00:24:20.359 I'd say they'd find it more difficult than the average person. 00:24:20.360 --> 00:24:22.999 So would ms Lawson's supposed condition 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:28.879 help or hinder her to pull off a planned, complicated murder? 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:32.039 Bpd varies widely from person to person. 00:24:32.040 --> 00:24:35.360 I'd say it depends on how well ms Lawson was managing her disorder. 00:24:37.120 --> 00:24:38.319 Did you know? 00:24:38.320 --> 00:24:40.559 Did you know about the diagnosis? 00:24:40.560 --> 00:24:41.799 Of course, I did. 00:24:41.800 --> 00:24:43.639 What, and you didn't think it was a good idea to tell me? 00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:45.639 It wasn't mine to tell. You left our daughter with her. 00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:47.359 I told you she was *en crazy! Shh! 00:24:47.360 --> 00:24:49.040 Why are you still defending her? 00:24:50.760 --> 00:24:52.799 Do you even know who she really is? 00:24:52.800 --> 00:24:54.759 Yeah. 00:24:54.760 --> 00:24:56.320 She's my sister. 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:08.560 Ava! 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:16.480 Ava! 00:25:40.080 --> 00:25:41.359 Hey, how are you doing? 00:25:41.360 --> 00:25:42.839 Hey, can I help you? 00:25:42.840 --> 00:25:45.199 Hey, excuse me! And you must be Joe. 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:46.399 Who are you? 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:48.439 Ava's dad. 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:49.639 One call to the cops 00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:53.039 and they will shut this whole underground operation down. 00:25:53.040 --> 00:25:56.039 Underground operation, he reckons. What are you talking about? 00:25:56.040 --> 00:25:58.039 I'm talking about you tattooing underage kids 00:25:58.040 --> 00:26:00.439 without their parents' consent. Hey mate, listen. 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:02.079 This is a licensed venue. 00:26:02.080 --> 00:26:03.239 No one else works on Ava. 00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:05.200 Oh, yeah, no one but you, right? 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:08.919 Come here. 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:12.320 Babe. 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:24.519 Ava, you're not listening to me. 00:26:24.520 --> 00:26:27.399 It's one thing you doing this on other people, or as a vocation, 00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:29.319 but it's another thing doing it to yourself. 00:26:29.320 --> 00:26:31.279 Your brain isn't even fully developed yet. 00:26:31.280 --> 00:26:32.759 Ohh! You shouldn't be making decisions 00:26:32.760 --> 00:26:34.119 that will affect the rest of your life. 00:26:34.120 --> 00:26:37.039 Dad, this is exactly why I didn't tell you. 00:26:37.040 --> 00:26:40.039 I won't work there till I turn 18. Then you'll have no say in it. 00:26:40.040 --> 00:26:43.279 Happy? Ava, I'm not forbidding it. 00:26:43.280 --> 00:26:45.119 Can we just have a conversation about it? 00:26:45.120 --> 00:26:47.559 I think it's beautiful. I think it's art. 00:26:47.560 --> 00:26:49.279 And you think it's me scarring myself 00:26:49.280 --> 00:26:51.159 because what, my brain's undercooked? 00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:53.439 There's no * conversation to be had here! 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:55.439 Ava, please! 00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:57.480 For god's... 00:27:02.560 --> 00:27:03.959 He made me do stuff. 00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:06.519 Stuff I, I didn't wanna do. 00:27:06.520 --> 00:27:11.399 But I never thought that he was... 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:12.880 ..I never thought that he... 00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:19.079 ..It's all my fault. 00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:20.919 Why do you think it's your fault, Kate? 00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:22.960 Because he asked me to bring her. 00:27:38.520 --> 00:27:41.399 It's barely warm. 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:42.840 It'll be perfect. 00:28:02.120 --> 00:28:05.839 So she's gonna throw my work up 00:28:05.840 --> 00:28:07.639 on those hideous screens again, is she? 00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:08.759 Ah, Kate. 00:28:08.760 --> 00:28:12.919 She's gonna make me out to be some psychopathic paedophile 00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:16.439 that would strangle a child for a photo. 00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:17.999 Best be prepared. 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.159 Oh, god, this... 00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:21.559 ..This is a, 00:28:21.560 --> 00:28:25.199 a beautiful bird that I found dead in the bush. 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:28.639 So why does that wigged * in there 00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:31.359 get to turn it into some * metaphor for murder? 00:28:31.360 --> 00:28:33.360 I think it could work in our favour. 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:40.479 Plus I find your photographs beautiful, mm? 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:42.600 They show your love for Claire. 00:28:51.520 --> 00:28:54.479 Maybe we should tell them. 00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:56.879 Maybe we should tell them about dokic. 00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.519 About belinda. 00:28:58.520 --> 00:29:00.039 Kate, the judge has ruled it out. 00:29:00.040 --> 00:29:02.920 Then how, how will they see it? 00:29:05.080 --> 00:29:10.480 The fragile line between flying and falling. 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:16.320 Between succumbing and surviving. 00:29:20.560 --> 00:29:22.240 It's just so precious. 00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:26.439 Hey, look at me. How? 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:28.879 How will they see? Kate. 00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:30.919 I see it. 00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:32.880 And maybe the jury will too. 00:29:36.120 --> 00:29:37.960 And what if they don't? 00:29:41.280 --> 00:29:47.559 Mr bell, how long has your gallery been presenting ms Lawson's work? 00:29:47.560 --> 00:29:52.279 We held her first exhibition in 2002. 00:29:52.280 --> 00:29:54.599 I have known her a long time. 00:29:54.600 --> 00:29:58.359 And do you consider Kate Lawson to be a friend as well as a colleague? 00:29:58.360 --> 00:30:00.559 Yeah, I do. 00:30:00.560 --> 00:30:04.999 It is an intimate relationship between a gallerist and an artist. 00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:08.519 You develop a lot of trust. 00:30:08.520 --> 00:30:12.439 Your honour, we would like to pass out copies of the exhibit catalogue 00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:13.880 to the jury, please. 00:30:15.600 --> 00:30:17.479 Thank you. 00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:19.960 If you could take one and pass the rest on, please. 00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:26.359 So how long after Claire's disappearance 00:30:26.360 --> 00:30:28.759 did the gallery exhibit this series? 00:30:28.760 --> 00:30:31.239 About four weeks after Claire's disappearance. 00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:36.439 And the series was mainly featuring images of Claire Spears, correct? 00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:37.719 Yes, it did. 00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:40.279 Was the police investigation into Claire's disappearance 00:30:40.280 --> 00:30:41.879 still ongoing? 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.359 Well, yes, it was. 00:30:44.360 --> 00:30:48.479 And yet ms Lawson was willing to go ahead with the exhibition? 00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:52.319 Ah, no. No, she was very against it. 00:30:52.320 --> 00:30:53.519 She was distraught, 00:30:53.520 --> 00:30:56.159 but I had buyers champing at the bit, 00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:59.559 and so I put my foot down 00:30:59.560 --> 00:31:01.400 and if I had known then... 00:31:03.320 --> 00:31:06.959 ..Well in retrospect, it was insensitive, yeah. 00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:09.959 In an email exchange the night before the exhibition opened, 00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:13.599 ms Lawson asked you to rearrange the display 00:31:13.600 --> 00:31:16.559 because of the missing piece. 00:31:16.560 --> 00:31:17.959 What does that refer to? 00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:21.839 Well, Kate intended to close out the series with one final image. 00:31:21.840 --> 00:31:24.039 And that image was? 00:31:24.040 --> 00:31:30.119 All I know is that Kate had arranged another photoshoot with Claire 00:31:30.120 --> 00:31:33.639 and yeah, for obvious reasons, that never happened. 00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:35.160 Indeed. 00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:47.719 Throughout this catalogue, 00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:52.120 you consistently refer to ms Lawson's work as abject art. 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.799 What does that mean? 00:31:57.800 --> 00:32:01.759 You know, we use lofty terms like that in the art market. 00:32:01.760 --> 00:32:04.719 Please explain the term, mr bell. 00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:07.359 Alright. 00:32:07.360 --> 00:32:10.319 Abjection is a term, 00:32:10.320 --> 00:32:14.439 a concept I believe first coined by the French feminist theorist, 00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:16.919 Julia kristeva. 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:18.439 And the concept is? 00:32:18.440 --> 00:32:25.399 Abjection describes a moment of existential horror 00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:27.799 a person experiences when they are confronted 00:32:27.800 --> 00:32:29.599 with their own corporeality. 00:32:29.600 --> 00:32:32.679 The finiteness of their human body. 00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:35.839 So abject art tries to depict 00:32:35.840 --> 00:32:40.079 the existential horror of confronting your own death? 00:32:40.080 --> 00:32:41.319 No. 00:32:41.320 --> 00:32:42.839 No, not exclusively. 00:32:42.840 --> 00:32:44.839 I'd say abject art is, 00:32:44.840 --> 00:32:47.879 it draws visceral attention to the body, 00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:52.159 which is what ms Lawson's photographs do. 00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:53.839 Quite stunningly, I might add. 00:32:53.840 --> 00:32:56.879 Mr bell, I'm going to direct your attention to page two 00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:57.999 of the catalogue, 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:00.560 where you have written, 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:05.479 "Lawson's latest series is preoccupied with bearing witness 00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:08.319 "to the violence of lost youth." 00:33:08.320 --> 00:33:11.439 "She renders this through opposing visual languages of corruption" 00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:16.600 "and innocence, decay and fecundity, death and birth." 00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:22.359 So in this series, 00:33:22.360 --> 00:33:26.439 ms Lawson was specifically trying to depict violence, 00:33:26.440 --> 00:33:29.039 lost youth and death? 00:33:29.040 --> 00:33:31.359 Specifically? 00:33:31.360 --> 00:33:35.319 Look, there is a degree of hyperbole to that language. 00:33:35.320 --> 00:33:37.359 I'm trying to sell the artworks, after all. 00:33:37.360 --> 00:33:39.919 Well, in your own words right now, mr bell, 00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:44.679 what would you say that the central theme of ms Lawson's series was? 00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:49.479 Well, to try to articulate a central theme is to reduce Kate's work. 00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:54.199 Like all great art, it is evocative and it is not prescriptive. 00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:55.679 It's open for interpretation. 00:33:55.680 --> 00:34:01.919 And what was your interpretation of ms Lawson's photo series? 00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:05.280 That it was provocative and very beautiful. 00:34:20.200 --> 00:34:22.399 Is anybody else having trouble eating, 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:24.080 after seeing those pictures? 00:34:28.240 --> 00:34:31.679 Well, I think the value of art 00:34:31.680 --> 00:34:34.879 lies in the impression it leaves on the viewer. 00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:35.959 See that? 00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:39.399 And her work clearly left a pretty strong impression on all of us. 00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:41.559 I disagree. 00:34:41.560 --> 00:34:45.279 I think art should be about creation, 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:50.719 celebrating life and beauty, not death and decay. 00:34:50.720 --> 00:34:53.719 Hey, those works are gonna be worth a motser if she gets acquitted. 00:34:53.720 --> 00:34:55.239 I'd buy some if I could afford it. 00:34:55.240 --> 00:34:56.999 Good investment. 00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:58.799 I think she's just working out her issues, 00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:00.719 making art like that. 00:35:00.720 --> 00:35:02.799 I think it's quite sad, actually. 00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:05.119 It's one thing an adult working through her issues, 00:35:05.120 --> 00:35:07.839 but Claire was 14 years old. 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:10.559 Adults are meant to protect vulnerable teenagers. 00:35:10.560 --> 00:35:14.159 I actually thought her photos were kind of epic. 00:35:14.160 --> 00:35:17.879 Well, I mean yeah, they were dark, sad and messed up, 00:35:17.880 --> 00:35:20.119 but so is life. 00:35:20.120 --> 00:35:21.639 Well, I don't like them. 00:35:21.640 --> 00:35:23.879 That's the value of art. It's subjective. 00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:25.079 Exactly my point. 00:35:25.080 --> 00:35:26.799 It's not about what the artist intends, 00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:30.159 it's about your interaction with the artwork. 00:35:31.680 --> 00:35:35.079 You're not the only one who's read 'the death of the author'. 00:35:35.080 --> 00:35:36.880 Yeah, but he seems to have understood it. 00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:44.719 Shit. 00:35:44.720 --> 00:35:50.319 Mr bell, could you identify the printouts of exhibit 16, please? 00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:55.119 Yes, these are scanned photographs emailed to me by Kate Lawson. 00:35:55.120 --> 00:35:59.119 They are lovely shots of the foreshore at night. 00:35:59.120 --> 00:36:00.519 When did you receive them? 00:36:00.520 --> 00:36:04.159 14 September, 2019. 00:36:04.160 --> 00:36:07.279 14 September. 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.319 Did Kate Lawson often share 00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:13.360 work in progress like this? 00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:14.799 All the time. 00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:18.359 I pride myself on being her first audience. 00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:21.999 So, now, did the provocative nature of ms Lawson's work 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.039 as discussed before, 00:36:24.040 --> 00:36:27.359 did this ever-present any legal issues for your gallery? 00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:28.559 Never. 00:36:28.560 --> 00:36:32.639 Kate was, and remains, our most commercially successful artist. 00:36:32.640 --> 00:36:35.519 What about her use of Claire Spears as a model? 00:36:35.520 --> 00:36:37.399 Did that ever-present any legal issues? 00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:38.439 God, no. 00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:41.639 We're not talking child nudity or exploitation here. 00:36:41.640 --> 00:36:43.839 These are fine art photographs. 00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:46.399 Now did you know Claire Spears personally? 00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:47.439 Of course. 00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:49.839 I saw her whenever I went to Kate's studio. 00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:51.799 At various events, 00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:55.039 sometimes Kate would bring her along to openings. 00:36:56.200 --> 00:36:59.279 Did you ever get the sense that she was being coerced by ms Lawson 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.159 into modelling for her work? 00:37:01.160 --> 00:37:02.319 Not at all. 00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:05.679 Claire was incredibly precocious, 00:37:05.680 --> 00:37:08.119 funny, high-spirited, 00:37:08.120 --> 00:37:11.559 often more well versed on the art world than I was. 00:37:11.560 --> 00:37:15.959 She struck me as a burgeoning artist herself. 00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:17.519 Now, what about potential buyers? 00:37:17.520 --> 00:37:22.079 Did they ever express any discomfort with the nature of ms Lawson's work? 00:37:22.080 --> 00:37:24.919 Look, I'm not saying it's for everyone. 00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:29.239 But art isn't always about making people comfortable. 00:37:29.240 --> 00:37:31.999 It is there to provoke, to challenge. 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:36.559 So you're saying ms Lawson wanted to confront people with her artwork? 00:37:36.560 --> 00:37:38.799 Look, Kate Lawson is an artist 00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:43.479 who powerfully and perfectly creates the illusion of death. 00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:45.239 And if Kate were to be convicted, 00:37:45.240 --> 00:37:47.679 then she would never sell another piece again. 00:37:47.680 --> 00:37:49.959 Is ms Lawson the only artist that you know 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:55.159 that uses bodily substances like blood or dead animals in her work? 00:37:55.160 --> 00:37:56.399 Not at all, no. 00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:58.559 There are innumerable. 00:37:58.560 --> 00:38:01.199 Andres serrano, acclaimed American photographer, 00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:02.279 comes to mind. 00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:07.279 He famously submerged a crucifix in his own urine. 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:10.759 Then he photographed bodies in morgues across america. 00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:13.839 Yes, well as you say, not for everyone. 00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:15.879 I was thinking more perhaps of Damien hirst. 00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:19.439 So in this context, nothing unusual about ms Lawson's work. 00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:22.119 Not in the least. 00:38:22.120 --> 00:38:24.679 A bloody thumbprint, a dead crow. 00:38:24.680 --> 00:38:27.839 This is comparatively tame in the art world. 00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:30.559 So how credible do you find the crown's theory 00:38:30.560 --> 00:38:35.879 that ms Lawson became so obsessed with authentically capturing 00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.359 the moment of death that she orchestrated 00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:40.840 her own niece's death 00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:42.999 for her artwork? It is ridiculous. 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:47.520 The idea that Kate would actually kill someone is pure insanity. 00:38:49.560 --> 00:38:50.840 Yes. 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:55.039 Thank you, mr bell. 00:38:55.040 --> 00:38:56.840 That's all I have, your honour. 00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:12.280 Yeah, I got that one. 00:39:38.080 --> 00:39:40.839 Bro, hurry up. 00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:43.239 Pint and parmy special's only on till 8:00. 00:39:43.240 --> 00:39:45.159 Yeah, I'm almost done. 00:39:45.160 --> 00:39:46.679 What subject's this for? 00:39:46.680 --> 00:39:48.079 Critical theory. 00:39:48.080 --> 00:39:51.239 Mm, sounds critical. 00:39:51.240 --> 00:39:53.559 So far it's about a bunch of white dudes 00:39:53.560 --> 00:39:55.679 arguing about the nature of reality. 00:39:55.680 --> 00:39:57.599 Hold on, heidegger? 00:39:57.600 --> 00:39:59.679 Didn't you already do an essay on this guy? 00:39:59.680 --> 00:40:02.439 No, that was a tute presentation on the readings. 00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:07.279 Yeah, so just buff up the word count using your notes from that. 00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:09.199 Bro, copy and paste. 00:40:09.200 --> 00:40:12.400 Control c, control v. Boom, we hit the pub. 00:40:21.320 --> 00:40:23.199 Yeah, alright. * it. 00:40:23.200 --> 00:40:24.840 Yeah, yeah. 00:41:25.040 --> 00:41:27.919 Oh, no. 00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:29.199 Oh, * no. 00:41:29.200 --> 00:41:31.919 * no, no, no. *! 00:41:32.200 --> 00:41:34.719 ..I knew they were underage, but... 00:41:34.720 --> 00:41:36.999 ..Listen to me. The whole thing was Kate's idea. 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:38.679 Why would two 14-year-old girls 00:41:38.680 --> 00:41:42.039 go to the house of a 29-year-old man? 00:41:42.040 --> 00:41:45.079 We were taking photos. 00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:49.159 And you see, Kate brought her around to model for me and *. 00:41:49.160 --> 00:41:52.119 Yes, we went to bed together, ok? 00:41:52.120 --> 00:41:56.279 But when I came... 00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:58.159 ..When I came back from the bathroom, 00:41:58.160 --> 00:41:59.880 she was... 00:42:01.560 --> 00:42:02.759 ..She was already on the floor. 00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:04.239 She was... 00:42:04.240 --> 00:42:07.519 ..Look I know how this looks. 00:42:07.520 --> 00:42:10.199 I know that I * up, but I didn't hurt that girl, ok? 00:42:10.200 --> 00:42:12.039 I swear it. 00:42:12.040 --> 00:42:13.680 I didn't hurt her. 00:42:20.160 --> 00:42:24.319 Yes, I knew that they were underage, 00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:26.239 but you know, 00:42:26.240 --> 00:42:28.360 the whole thing was Kate's idea. 00:42:48.120 --> 00:42:49.600 Gentle. 00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:53.400 Just take the edge of it. 00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:57.279 You got it. Mm. 00:42:57.280 --> 00:42:58.760 Back and forward.