WEBVTT 00:00:03.330 --> 00:00:06.080 I used to go to Tsukiji a lot when I lived in Japan. 00:00:06.670 --> 00:00:11.130 From all over the world, the best sushi‐grade stuff, 00:00:11.130 --> 00:00:13.550 the best seafood is in this market. 00:00:14.050 --> 00:00:16.680 You see the amount of fish, 00:00:17.260 --> 00:00:19.470 it is jaw‐dropping. 00:00:19.470 --> 00:00:22.430 And, I was like, "Wow, this happens every day!" 00:00:23.190 --> 00:00:26.310 And then you go to the tuna auctions and you see where the tuna's from. 00:00:26.310 --> 00:00:28.320 And you're like, "Wow, that's really all over the world." 00:00:29.070 --> 00:00:30.530 I remember thinking... 00:00:31.360 --> 00:00:34.400 we're headed towards some kind of extinction event. 00:00:36.620 --> 00:00:39.330 So the biggest issue for sushi in the future is 00:00:39.330 --> 00:00:41.040 where the fish are gonna come from? 00:00:42.080 --> 00:00:43.120 And can it survive? 00:00:49.250 --> 00:00:51.670 Sushi is becoming so popular these days, 00:00:51.670 --> 00:00:54.590 you can find it in grocery stores all over America. 00:00:54.590 --> 00:00:57.470 Overfishing is a serious issue in our oceans 00:00:57.470 --> 00:00:58.600 and fish farms bring 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:01.100 a host of health and environmental hazards. 00:01:01.680 --> 00:01:03.430 The United Nations estimates 00:01:03.430 --> 00:01:06.980 85% of the world's commercial fish populations 00:01:06.980 --> 00:01:08.860 are fished to the max. 00:01:08.860 --> 00:01:10.270 This could be the end of an era. 00:01:10.270 --> 00:01:11.780 Do you think that that's accurate? 00:01:11.780 --> 00:01:12.730 Certainly. 00:01:23.870 --> 00:01:25.080 Oh, you know what's a trip? 00:01:25.580 --> 00:01:29.290 This is the kind of boat my grandfather‐‐ great grandfather rode in. 00:01:29.290 --> 00:01:30.880 ‐ Oh, yeah? ‐ Yeah. 00:01:30.880 --> 00:01:32.630 This is where he came in probably. 00:01:33.300 --> 00:01:34.970 ‐ That's crazy to think about. 00:01:34.970 --> 00:01:36.340 ‐ 1925. 00:01:37.890 --> 00:01:40.050 Why does *in' fish have to be up so early, man? 00:01:40.050 --> 00:01:41.640 Carpe *' diem. 00:01:42.180 --> 00:01:42.970 ‐ We did it. 00:01:45.270 --> 00:01:46.600 You know what's better than this? 00:01:47.100 --> 00:01:48.150 ‐ Sleeping. ‐ Sleeping. 00:01:58.700 --> 00:01:59.740 Oh, we got something. 00:01:59.740 --> 00:02:00.740 Go, Ying, go! 00:02:00.740 --> 00:02:01.450 Look at it go. 00:02:01.950 --> 00:02:04.540 ‐ I hope it pulls him into the water. 00:02:05.330 --> 00:02:07.120 Oh, this size! 00:02:08.330 --> 00:02:10.040 Yeah, ikejime, Chris. Brain spike. 00:02:10.040 --> 00:02:10.750 ‐ Ikejime. 00:02:10.750 --> 00:02:12.170 ‐ I know. So what would happen right now? 00:02:13.130 --> 00:02:15.260 We bleed it and then put a rod... 00:02:15.260 --> 00:02:16.920 Through its spine. Yeah. 00:02:16.920 --> 00:02:19.050 Can we spike this one? We don't have a spike. 00:02:19.470 --> 00:02:20.760 ‐ Show us what you would do with this. 00:02:28.700 --> 00:02:31.500 - 00:02:32.300 --> 00:02:33.500 -- 00:02:34.500 --> 00:02:36.500 - 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:39.660 So what's the difference between ikejime fish and not? 00:02:39.660 --> 00:02:41.780 Two things. Texture and flavor. 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:45.300 - 00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:47.000 -- 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:48.500 - 00:02:48.500 --> 00:02:50.460 ‐ You develop more flavor that way. 00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:51.920 More umami. ‐ Right. 00:02:52.380 --> 00:02:55.000 ‐ It's just so interesting to think everything in sushi, 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:56.800 like from the moment the fish is killed, 00:02:57.460 --> 00:02:59.840 is thought about because it's gonna become sushi. 00:03:00.340 --> 00:03:04.220 You will ikejime it, slice it, age it for a week. 00:03:05.350 --> 00:03:09.270 ‐ I don't think most people, I mean, think about fish aging. 00:03:09.270 --> 00:03:12.190 ‐ It's no‐‐ It's not fresh, right? These are... 00:03:12.190 --> 00:03:15.820 ‐ Wasn't that the number one thing people think about with‐‐ with sushi? 00:03:15.820 --> 00:03:17.650 It's gotta be fresh, right? ‐ Right. 00:03:17.650 --> 00:03:21.450 ‐ And that's why it's always funny to me, whenever you hear someone saying, 00:03:23.070 --> 00:03:25.580 "Well, it's closer‐‐ This restaurant's closer to the water." 00:03:25.580 --> 00:03:26.410 Right. 00:03:26.410 --> 00:03:28.830 ‐ "So you're saying you want the view?" 00:03:28.830 --> 00:03:31.920 "No, no, no, no. It's not the view. It's‐‐ It's gonna be better. Fresher." 00:03:31.920 --> 00:03:34.540 ‐ It's like saying the wine tastes better closer to the grapes. 00:03:39.300 --> 00:03:41.430 There are many lies floating around about sushi. 00:03:41.430 --> 00:03:44.090 Like that a California roll contains crab 00:03:44.090 --> 00:03:46.180 or that it should be drowned in soy sauce and wasabi 00:03:46.760 --> 00:03:48.720 or that sushi and ketchup are a bad idea. 00:03:49.320 --> 00:03:51.190 And the biggest myth of all... 00:03:51.190 --> 00:03:51.980 freshness. 00:03:52.390 --> 00:03:54.940 ‐ We have put such a premium on fresh 00:03:55.650 --> 00:03:59.110 as a marketing term, as a sales pitch, 00:04:00.940 --> 00:04:05.200 but most of the fish that you eat is, like, 99% frozen 00:04:05.200 --> 00:04:07.580 because of the safety factors, 00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:09.870 to kill any parasites. 00:04:10.910 --> 00:04:12.500 Absolutely nothing is fresh. 00:04:14.540 --> 00:04:16.080 This may come as a surprise, 00:04:16.080 --> 00:04:18.920 but the spider roll they're selling at Hudson News in LAX, 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:19.840 it isn't fresh. 00:04:20.510 --> 00:04:22.590 So what else is Big Sushi trying to hide? 00:04:22.590 --> 00:04:24.590 ‐ I wanna know who the * made sushi healthy. 00:04:25.140 --> 00:04:26.680 You're adding sugar to the rice. 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:31.770 And rice itself is basically sugar that hasn't been converted yet into sugar. 00:04:31.770 --> 00:04:32.730 Putting mayonnaise and shit... 00:04:32.730 --> 00:04:33.730 A lot of salt... 00:04:33.730 --> 00:04:34.690 Definitely not healthy. 00:04:35.900 --> 00:04:38.070 It's amazing to me, as popular as sushi is, 00:04:38.070 --> 00:04:39.730 people still don't know anything about it. 00:04:41.190 --> 00:04:43.030 Let's talk about how this all happened. 00:04:43.030 --> 00:04:46.870 Like most myths in America, it all goes back to 1980s Hollywood. 00:05:02.550 --> 00:05:03.630 What is happening right now? 00:05:03.630 --> 00:05:08.140 He is scooping out the tuna with an abalone shell, 00:05:08.140 --> 00:05:10.350 traditional way of getting the tartare. 00:05:10.350 --> 00:05:12.640 So after you fillet the tuna, 00:05:12.640 --> 00:05:15.770 you wanna utilize every scrap on it possible. 00:05:16.730 --> 00:05:19.270 ‐ My grandmother treated a chicken that way. 00:05:21.570 --> 00:05:23.280 She treated $2 chicken that way. 00:05:24.190 --> 00:05:28.030 ‐ If I had a bet on the things that would be popular 30 years ago‐‐ 20 years ago, 00:05:28.030 --> 00:05:29.660 I never ever would've guessed sushi, right? 00:05:29.660 --> 00:05:30.330 Right. 00:05:30.330 --> 00:05:33.120 ‐ No, I would've not even put, like, a dollar to that bet. 00:05:33.580 --> 00:05:35.250 Uh, there's no way I would've thought that. 00:05:35.250 --> 00:05:37.790 ‐ I‐‐ I always go back to... 00:05:38.830 --> 00:05:43.170 Japanese food or Japanese culture represented in‐‐ in media. 00:05:43.170 --> 00:05:44.880 I think that is one of the reasons, 00:05:44.880 --> 00:05:47.180 certainly not the only reason, why it's so accepted. 00:05:47.630 --> 00:05:52.260 ‐ I don't know when the first time you saw something in a movie or a TV show, 00:05:52.260 --> 00:05:54.020 but for me, it was The Breakfast Club. 00:05:54.020 --> 00:05:54.890 Oh, yeah. 00:05:55.890 --> 00:05:56.480 ‐ What's that? 00:05:57.900 --> 00:05:58.520 ‐ Sushi. 00:06:00.400 --> 00:06:01.190 ‐ Sushi? 00:06:01.610 --> 00:06:03.110 He still found it gross though, right? 00:06:03.110 --> 00:06:05.940 That's the other thing about‐‐ about depictions of sushi 00:06:05.940 --> 00:06:06.900 during this period. 00:06:06.900 --> 00:06:09.700 ‐ Sushi. Raw fish. Very good. 00:06:10.530 --> 00:06:15.120 ‐ Around the '80s, there was so much Japanese influence in Hollywood. 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:17.750 ‐ Fujitsu‐san, konnichiwa! 00:06:17.750 --> 00:06:19.080 ‐ McFly... 00:06:19.080 --> 00:06:22.790 ‐ Sort of mirrored what probably was happening in corporate America 00:06:22.790 --> 00:06:27.260 where Japanese businessmen were buying giant chunks of America. 00:06:27.260 --> 00:06:28.680 They bought 30 Rock. 00:06:29.260 --> 00:06:31.550 I always think of that scene in Defending Your Life 00:06:31.550 --> 00:06:33.390 when they're eating sushi and they're‐‐ ‐ Oh, yes. 00:06:36.310 --> 00:06:36.890 ‐ Hi. 00:06:37.640 --> 00:06:40.440 But for all the Japanese culture you were seeing, 00:06:40.440 --> 00:06:42.480 Japanese people are serving you, right? 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:46.150 They're agents of luxury, but they're not actually partakers in it. 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:49.700 Just growing up, Japanese food was higher end. 00:06:49.700 --> 00:06:50.450 Yes, yes. 00:06:50.450 --> 00:06:52.200 ‐ It was for the elite class. Yeah. 00:06:53.030 --> 00:06:55.200 The fact that it's everywhere, 00:06:55.200 --> 00:06:58.540 I just don't know if we really understand what the hell happened. 00:07:02.130 --> 00:07:06.550 I'm just‐‐ I cannot wrap my head around it. 00:07:06.550 --> 00:07:10.720 Raw fish... is widely consumed. 00:07:12.090 --> 00:07:14.470 Evidence doesn't point to Molly Ringwald as the mastermind 00:07:14.470 --> 00:07:16.560 behind sushi's rise in America. 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:17.770 By the 1980s, 00:07:17.770 --> 00:07:20.520 sushi as a mass‐market product had been in the works for years. 00:07:20.940 --> 00:07:23.560 Many organizations benefited from the rise of sushi 00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:25.690 and even became part of the myth themselves. 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:28.440 In fact, here's a fun bedtime story. 00:07:29.990 --> 00:07:32.570 This gentleman is Mr. Sun Myung Moon 00:07:32.570 --> 00:07:34.450 who is traveling around the world, 00:07:34.450 --> 00:07:38.830 calling for the establishment of one world religion and one church. 00:07:39.330 --> 00:07:41.790 ‐ The group that's probably made the most money in sushi 00:07:41.790 --> 00:07:43.250 is the Unification Church, 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:45.540 which has been labeled as a cult. 00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:50.050 Reverend Moon said, "We're gonna fund our operations with sushi. 00:07:50.050 --> 00:07:52.470 We're gonna popularize it." And the rest is history. 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:56.220 But I don't know how the * he saw it. 00:07:56.930 --> 00:08:01.770 It's‐‐ It borders on life is a simulation, or he has a time machine. 00:08:02.390 --> 00:08:06.440 ‐ At the age of 16, you had a conversation with Jesus. 00:08:06.440 --> 00:08:07.940 ‐ Uh, yes, he did. 00:08:08.610 --> 00:08:11.280 Technically, it's not the Unification Church, 00:08:11.280 --> 00:08:13.950 it is one of their business entities called True World. 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:20.040 I don't even know the extent of True World's monopoly on sushi. 00:08:21.080 --> 00:08:24.420 I have paranoid delusions of it, 00:08:24.420 --> 00:08:29.420 like there's some Marvel‐like Hydra entity with tons of little shell companies. 00:08:30.170 --> 00:08:31.420 I don't know! 00:08:31.970 --> 00:08:33.510 Let's pause for a second there, Dave. 00:08:33.510 --> 00:08:34.340 I've done some research, 00:08:34.340 --> 00:08:36.600 and this story first came to light in 2006, 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:38.810 based on reporting from the Chicago Tribune. 00:08:38.810 --> 00:08:41.680 I just read through the articles and my myth‐busting filter's kicking in, 00:08:41.680 --> 00:08:44.020 so let me throw some fine print at you real quick. 00:08:53.570 --> 00:08:54.820 Okay, lawyers, are we good? 00:08:55.700 --> 00:08:56.320 Great! 00:08:57.490 --> 00:09:00.790 Growing up as a Korean, I was sort of indoctrinated in my life, 00:09:00.790 --> 00:09:01.950 that's a cult, 00:09:01.950 --> 00:09:05.420 so when I started Momofuku and we started putting fish on the menu, 00:09:05.420 --> 00:09:07.290 I was like, "I'm never gonna put True World on." 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:10.210 And I remember someone told me, 00:09:10.210 --> 00:09:12.800 "Okay, Dave. Good for you, you're not buying from True World. 00:09:12.800 --> 00:09:14.510 How do you know that's not owned by True World?" 00:09:15.430 --> 00:09:19.470 How do you know they're not buying fish that were purchased from the port 00:09:19.470 --> 00:09:20.890 that is owned by True World? 00:09:22.350 --> 00:09:24.270 In this world that we live in, 00:09:24.690 --> 00:09:28.940 you can't keep yourself clean from The Unification Church. 00:09:34.990 --> 00:09:38.660 It's clear that the myths of sushi go much deeper than just freshness. 00:09:38.660 --> 00:09:40.660 But here's what I can tell you for sure. 00:09:40.660 --> 00:09:41.910 It's really popular. 00:09:42.330 --> 00:09:47.000 In 2021, sushi restaurants are a $22.5‐billion‐dollar industry. 00:09:47.330 --> 00:09:48.710 But is that sustainable? 00:09:51.090 --> 00:09:51.800 ‐ No! 00:09:52.750 --> 00:09:53.460 No! 00:09:53.460 --> 00:09:56.050 To find out, let's get back to where sushi came from. 00:09:56.550 --> 00:09:58.260 They don't teach this in American history class 00:09:58.260 --> 00:09:59.550 or anything really. 00:09:59.550 --> 00:10:00.600 So let's talk about it 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:03.520 because I've read everything you've written in English about sushi, 00:10:03.520 --> 00:10:04.890 and there's a lot more to it. 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:10.270 Most people are missing the complexity and history, 00:10:10.270 --> 00:10:12.320 and if they don't really know, 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:14.990 then it's gonna be seen as like a hamburger. 00:10:14.990 --> 00:10:17.820 It's gonna be seen as something that's disposable, 00:10:17.820 --> 00:10:19.410 something that can be delivered. 00:10:19.410 --> 00:10:23.990 If you lose that appreciation, then sushi sort of loses its meaning too. 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:36.000 - 00:10:36.500 --> 00:10:37.800 -- 00:10:37.800 --> 00:10:39.800 - 00:10:39.800 --> 00:10:41.800 -- 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:46.000 - 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.500 -- 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:53.000 - 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:59.000 -- 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:02.000 - 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:04.300 -- 00:11:04.500 --> 00:11:08.000 - 00:11:08.500 --> 00:11:11.300 -- 00:11:11.300 --> 00:11:14.500 - 00:11:17.300 --> 00:11:21.000 -- 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.000 - 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:25.700 -- 00:11:25.700 --> 00:11:28.000 - 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:30.000 -- 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:33.000 - 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:38.000 -- 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.000 - 00:11:40.700 --> 00:11:43.000 -- 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:46.000 - 00:11:46.030 --> 00:11:48.080 That was originally what sushi was about, 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:51.750 a small‐time street food using local fish that were in season. 00:11:51.750 --> 00:11:54.380 But two centuries later, that's all slipped away, 00:11:54.380 --> 00:11:56.170 and you're trying to keep up with demand. 00:11:56.170 --> 00:11:57.630 It's like the summer of '98, 00:11:57.630 --> 00:12:00.170 when everybody wanted a Big Mouth Billy Bass. 00:12:00.170 --> 00:12:01.880 ‐ We sold out immediately. 00:12:02.300 --> 00:12:04.760 Everyone wanted one, so no one could have one. 00:12:04.760 --> 00:12:05.760 ‐ Don't worry. 00:12:05.760 --> 00:12:08.100 Humans just can't be trusted with something they love. 00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:09.270 ‐ Be happy. ‐ Be happy. 00:12:11.640 --> 00:12:13.190 ‐ We eat way too much sushi. 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:17.110 And I don't think people wanna really unpack sushi 00:12:17.110 --> 00:12:19.650 because once you unravel it... 00:12:21.030 --> 00:12:23.610 maybe you can't love something that you really love. 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:37.000 - 00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:44.000 -- 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.600 - 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:58.000 -- 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:04.000 - 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:09.000 -- 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:15.000 - 00:13:16.540 --> 00:13:20.460 In Japan, it depends where you are, what time of year it is. 00:13:20.460 --> 00:13:21.050 Right. 00:13:21.050 --> 00:13:23.170 ‐ And that dictates what fish you eat. 00:13:23.170 --> 00:13:24.420 In America‐‐ 00:13:24.420 --> 00:13:26.800 ‐ No, no, no. You‐‐ you can't underestimate that. 00:13:26.800 --> 00:13:30.060 I think Japanese as a culture, Japan as a culture, 00:13:30.060 --> 00:13:34.310 has more understanding of seasonality than any other place I've ever been, 00:13:34.310 --> 00:13:35.890 particularly when it comes to fish. 00:13:35.890 --> 00:13:38.770 They'll tell you, "The fish came from this part of the water." 00:13:38.770 --> 00:13:43.150 That's how much the... the‐‐ the diner wants to know 00:13:43.150 --> 00:13:44.530 because of the flavor, 00:13:44.530 --> 00:13:46.240 and also the chef wants to know too. 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:50.160 It's like, "Oh, this Saba mackerel is coming from these waters 00:13:50.160 --> 00:13:52.490 and it's been eating these things, it's gonna be fattier." 00:13:52.490 --> 00:13:54.830 You're constantly adjusting your rice. 00:13:54.830 --> 00:13:57.750 ‐ I never in my life, until maybe the last couple of years, 00:13:57.750 --> 00:14:00.170 have thought of sushi as a seasonal food. 00:14:00.170 --> 00:14:02.170 - 00:14:02.170 --> 00:14:04.170 -- 00:14:04.340 --> 00:14:05.880 In Japan, it's a fancy thing. 00:14:05.880 --> 00:14:06.880 ‐ A special event. 00:14:06.880 --> 00:14:09.760 ‐ You just think like, "Sushi means raw fresh fish." 00:14:09.760 --> 00:14:13.220 ‐ Fish is seasonal, they‐‐ they don't‐‐ They swim around! 00:14:13.220 --> 00:14:16.230 You don't have‐‐ You mean, you don't have salmon all year round 00:14:16.230 --> 00:14:17.230 anywhere you go? 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.000 - 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:24.500 -- 00:14:24.500 --> 00:14:30.000 - 00:14:31.500 --> 00:14:34.000 -- 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:39.000 - 00:14:40.630 --> 00:14:45.460 ‐ We've just become so accustomed to getting whatever we want. 00:14:46.050 --> 00:14:49.470 So the idea of running out of something, 00:14:50.050 --> 00:14:51.970 I don't know if people understand that with food. 00:14:53.350 --> 00:14:54.720 You know, people want more. 00:14:55.140 --> 00:14:56.890 Well, that more has to come from somewhere. 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.000 - 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:03.000 -- 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:08.000 - 00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:14.000 -- 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:18.000 - 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.000 -- 00:15:23.500 --> 00:15:26.000 - 00:15:27.500 --> 00:15:32.000 -- 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:37.000 - 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:47.280 Humans excel at many things. 00:15:47.280 --> 00:15:48.860 One of them is eating animals, 00:15:48.860 --> 00:15:51.280 which used to be a celebratory affair. 00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:54.530 But like most celebrations, you tend to take things too far, 00:15:58.890 --> 00:16:00.270 Sushi really is just a vehicle 00:16:00.270 --> 00:16:02.650 to talk about how we consume things at large. 00:16:03.850 --> 00:16:05.150 It's about extinction. 00:16:07.820 --> 00:16:09.990 Bluefin tuna's not going to be around. 00:16:09.990 --> 00:16:13.160 It will be on the endangered list, and you won't be able to eat it. 00:16:13.660 --> 00:16:18.330 Also, we have destroyed the ability to eat wild Atlantic salmon. 00:16:18.330 --> 00:16:22.000 So anyone that tells you they sell wild Atlantic salmon 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:24.080 is straight up lying 'cause it's illegal. 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:25.840 It's, like, * crazy to me. 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:29.630 If we stay on our current course, 00:16:29.630 --> 00:16:32.260 some scientists project that all edible fish stocks 00:16:32.260 --> 00:16:34.180 will collapse by the year 2050. 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:44.730 The funny thing is, I think most people eat sushi 00:16:44.730 --> 00:16:46.900 thinking they're making the moral choice. 00:16:46.900 --> 00:16:48.900 You know, they're on the right side of history. 00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:51.740 Just because it's fish 00:16:51.740 --> 00:16:54.280 doesn't mean it's... good for the world. 00:16:55.820 --> 00:16:58.830 When I start thinking about the environment and fish, it just‐‐ 00:16:58.830 --> 00:17:02.620 You‐‐ You go down this death spiral of you're just gonna eat jellyfish. 00:17:04.330 --> 00:17:05.540 And I hate jellyfish. 00:17:23.390 --> 00:17:25.020 Hello. 00:17:25.020 --> 00:17:26.190 How you doing? 00:17:26.190 --> 00:17:27.730 Pleasure. Pleasure meeting you. 00:17:27.730 --> 00:17:29.440 ‐ Hey, Todd. Good to meet you. 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:33.950 How many years has your family been... fishing? 00:17:33.950 --> 00:17:39.490 ‐ Just about 102 maybe, 104. A little while. 00:17:39.490 --> 00:17:40.870 You guys are doing this. 00:17:40.870 --> 00:17:43.960 You and your peers are taking the extra efforts, 00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:46.420 working with the con‐‐ conservation groups. 00:17:46.420 --> 00:17:52.300 Why are you such an advocate for this extra level of... governance? 00:17:52.300 --> 00:17:54.880 ‐ As the fishermen that are still fishing here, 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.680 we‐‐ we have the greatest stake 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:00.640 in making sure that those fish are protected 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.680 because everything that our life hinges on, 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.350 the whole value of our family, 00:18:06.350 --> 00:18:08.770 depends on those fish. 00:18:08.770 --> 00:18:11.480 So we unequivocally do not‐‐ 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:13.480 If we harm that, it's like‐‐ 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:16.200 You know, it's like the‐‐ the tree growing the fruit, right? 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:17.910 You cut the tree down, you ain't getting more fruit. 00:18:18.870 --> 00:18:22.910 For years, I'd go eat at restaurants out here, 00:18:22.910 --> 00:18:25.370 and the fish would be from the east coast. Yeah! 00:18:25.370 --> 00:18:27.790 ‐ Every time I was like, "Why can't we just get fish from out here?" 00:18:27.790 --> 00:18:29.290 ‐ Exactly. And now you have. 00:18:29.290 --> 00:18:30.540 What was the gap? 00:18:30.540 --> 00:18:34.300 Because, clearly, you have been catching this stuff‐‐ your family for 102 years. 00:18:34.300 --> 00:18:35.420 What was the disconnect? 00:18:35.420 --> 00:18:40.680 ‐ There was a‐‐ There was a disconnect, probably about an 18‐year gap or so 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:44.470 when, uh, there was poor management earlier. 00:18:44.470 --> 00:18:46.520 It was declared overfished. 00:18:46.520 --> 00:18:50.230 And, uh, the fishery went through a remarkable, like, rebuild 00:18:50.230 --> 00:18:53.270 where they thought originally when it started, 00:18:53.270 --> 00:18:55.570 "These fish are gonna take 130 years 00:18:55.570 --> 00:18:57.860 and this guy is gonna take 90 years, this guy‐‐" 00:18:57.860 --> 00:18:59.950 So we were like, "I ain't gonna live that long." 00:18:59.950 --> 00:19:02.030 So, you know, we're in trouble here. 00:19:02.030 --> 00:19:03.160 To make a long story short, 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:06.040 as these new fisheries policies went into place, 00:19:06.040 --> 00:19:11.880 the fish, in about 12 or 14 years, just like, boom, they just exploded. 00:19:12.840 --> 00:19:13.920 The ocean was much healthier 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:16.840 and came back much, much faster than they thought. 00:19:16.840 --> 00:19:20.180 And now there was four species of major concern 00:19:20.180 --> 00:19:21.340 and they're all off the list. 00:19:22.010 --> 00:19:24.260 But, you know, there's been huge prices paid 00:19:24.260 --> 00:19:26.270 for us to continue to do this. 00:19:26.270 --> 00:19:27.890 You can see all these cameras. 00:19:27.890 --> 00:19:31.060 A lot of this stuff was done with the Nature Conservancy. 00:19:31.060 --> 00:19:34.730 So everything that this boat touches, everything, 00:19:34.730 --> 00:19:37.690 is monitored and accounted for. 00:19:37.690 --> 00:19:41.320 ‐ I mean, I would venture to guess this is a rarity in the world. 00:19:41.320 --> 00:19:43.660 ‐ Yeah, it's‐‐ it's‐‐ it's kinda‐‐ That's what's sad. 00:19:43.660 --> 00:19:47.750 It's ended up to be more of a boutique‐like specialty item. 00:19:48.830 --> 00:19:51.080 If I was asked 20 years ago if people would start to care 00:19:51.080 --> 00:19:53.290 about the prominence of their food and sustainability, 00:19:53.290 --> 00:19:54.840 I would say no way. 00:19:54.840 --> 00:19:57.210 Um, but it matters now. 00:19:57.210 --> 00:20:00.130 And I don't think it has anything to do with the older generation. 00:20:00.130 --> 00:20:03.930 It is, uh, thankfully, driven entirely by the younger generation 00:20:03.930 --> 00:20:05.260 that wants fairness. 00:20:05.260 --> 00:20:07.680 They want to protect the future. 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:11.020 So... I actually am hopeful. 00:20:13.060 --> 00:20:18.110 But I think it will be a rarity to eat wild fish. 00:20:19.490 --> 00:20:21.450 I was told, and I'm just trying to have an understanding, 00:20:21.450 --> 00:20:24.030 what is it exactly Wildtype do? 00:20:24.030 --> 00:20:26.490 ‐ Yeah, so we've come up with a way to make sushi, 00:20:26.490 --> 00:20:28.200 salmon, uh, in our case, 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:30.160 uh, without using animals. 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:35.590 So we grow cells and sculpt them into fish meat. 00:20:35.590 --> 00:20:38.960 ‐ What were you guys doing before you started to recreate salmon 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:41.340 in your‐‐ in your loft here? 00:20:42.510 --> 00:20:44.390 ‐ So yeah, I was‐‐ I was working as a diplomat, 00:20:44.390 --> 00:20:46.300 talking a lot about food security. 00:20:46.300 --> 00:20:47.310 I took that home with me 00:20:47.310 --> 00:20:49.930 and just started learning a lot about our food system. 00:20:49.930 --> 00:20:52.390 ‐ So diplomat, cardiologist. 00:20:52.390 --> 00:20:54.600 Yeah, I was working on heart regeneration. 00:20:54.600 --> 00:20:59.110 Looking at how our cells can regrow after a heart attack. 00:20:59.110 --> 00:21:00.820 I realized this can be applied 00:21:00.820 --> 00:21:04.910 to just grow the foods that we love outside of the animal. 00:21:06.370 --> 00:21:07.870 ‐ Can we see it? Can we try it? 00:21:07.870 --> 00:21:09.290 Yeah, of course. Absolutely! 00:21:13.330 --> 00:21:15.580 That's wild. Seriously, man. 00:21:15.580 --> 00:21:16.540 That's insane. 00:21:18.210 --> 00:21:21.550 Oh, my God! I think I can guess, but why‐‐ why did you choose salmon? 00:21:21.550 --> 00:21:23.880 ‐ It's one of the most consumed fish in US. 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:26.680 It's one of the healthiest fish to eat. 00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:29.180 Things like omega‐3 fatty acids and so forth. 00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:30.850 ‐ People want it. 00:21:30.850 --> 00:21:33.810 And usually every kind of marketing lie 00:21:33.810 --> 00:21:36.520 is sold to the consumer about the sustainability. 00:21:36.520 --> 00:21:39.650 But people don't realize that it's a seasonal fish. 00:21:39.650 --> 00:21:42.110 Right. Yeah, you can have it all year around, 00:21:42.110 --> 00:21:43.610 which seems a little strange, right? 00:21:43.610 --> 00:21:45.450 But you shouldn't. ‐ Yeah, that's right, yeah. 00:21:45.450 --> 00:21:47.570 ‐ Which is why smoking and preserving salmon 00:21:47.570 --> 00:21:51.330 became, you know, such a popular means of consuming it. 00:21:51.330 --> 00:21:56.710 But 95% of all smoked salmon consumed is from farm‐raised garbage. 00:21:56.710 --> 00:21:59.420 And I mean that. You know, garbage. 00:21:59.420 --> 00:22:03.380 Salmon, for the most part, farm raised, is horrible. 00:22:03.380 --> 00:22:06.930 There's one place that might be growing it right in New Zealand. 00:22:06.930 --> 00:22:10.510 Um, and I try my best to‐‐ to not do that 00:22:10.510 --> 00:22:12.930 because I do like the fish and I do respect salmon. 00:22:12.930 --> 00:22:14.560 I love the seasonal aspect 00:22:14.560 --> 00:22:17.560 of California king salmon, and Alaskan king salmon. 00:22:17.560 --> 00:22:21.360 Um, and I hope one day that we'll be able to replenish the ocean 00:22:21.360 --> 00:22:24.650 and fish and eat Atlantic wild salmon. 00:22:24.650 --> 00:22:26.490 Right. Oh, yes, yeah. 00:22:27.860 --> 00:22:29.370 ‐ Microphone's right there. 00:22:31.330 --> 00:22:32.450 Yeah, enjoy. 00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:37.540 Mind if we join you? 00:22:37.540 --> 00:22:38.710 Hmm. ‐ Yeah. 00:22:41.630 --> 00:22:43.050 ‐ Delicious. 00:22:43.050 --> 00:22:45.340 ‐ I mean, that's very good. That's very‐‐ It's‐‐ 00:22:46.590 --> 00:22:49.760 ‐ I mean, you read about it. You know, like, one day... 00:22:49.760 --> 00:22:51.350 ‐ Yeah. I didn't know it was today. 00:22:53.260 --> 00:22:54.970 ‐ Can I just try some of the raw? Yeah. 00:22:58.060 --> 00:23:00.520 What percentage of Americans, if you gave that to them, 00:23:00.520 --> 00:23:04.070 would even balk for a quarter second? 00:23:04.070 --> 00:23:05.610 99% of people wouldn't know. 00:23:05.610 --> 00:23:06.940 Would have no * idea. 00:23:06.940 --> 00:23:10.070 ‐ But do sushi chefs in Japan actually use this? 00:23:10.870 --> 00:23:14.120 Sushi has‐‐ has a history of reinventing itself. 00:23:14.120 --> 00:23:16.410 And‐‐ and we thought this is‐‐ 00:23:16.410 --> 00:23:19.120 this is just part of what the future of sushi is. 00:23:19.120 --> 00:23:19.960 ‐ Yeah. 00:23:24.800 --> 00:23:26.400 - 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:30.100 -- 00:23:32.600 --> 00:23:35.600 - 00:23:35.600 --> 00:23:38.600 -- 00:23:39.100 --> 00:23:43.100 - 00:23:43.100 --> 00:23:46.100 -- 00:23:53.320 --> 00:23:58.750 I mean, Nick, do you think that you'll ever use lab‐grown tuna? 00:23:58.750 --> 00:24:02.000 ‐ I guess if it‐‐ If it's, like, safe for the Earth 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:06.050 and there's no labor craziness and there's no corruption, 00:24:06.050 --> 00:24:07.420 yeah, definitely open to it. 00:24:07.420 --> 00:24:10.420 What about sushiyas in Japan, like the top ones? They ain't gonna‐‐ 00:24:10.420 --> 00:24:12.430 Probably not. I don't think‐‐ 00:24:12.430 --> 00:24:14.390 ‐ But then it'll be like a luxury, right? 00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:17.270 I think just regular everyday sushi 00:24:17.270 --> 00:24:19.850 should be done at a lab maybe, you know? 00:24:19.850 --> 00:24:23.150 And this should be the place you come for, you know, the special occasion. 00:24:24.520 --> 00:24:26.360 I love this piece so much. 00:24:27.110 --> 00:24:29.280 This has got his signature on this. 00:24:29.280 --> 00:24:30.320 ‐ Oh, my God! 00:24:30.320 --> 00:24:34.660 Because you never see Thai bird chili on sushi. 00:24:35.320 --> 00:24:36.740 This is‐‐ This is New York. 00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:39.540 Okay. ‐ This is real innovation, right? 00:24:39.540 --> 00:24:43.710 Um, and I think a significant moment in sushi in America. 00:24:43.710 --> 00:24:46.250 I mean, it also is significant in my mouth. 00:24:46.250 --> 00:24:47.880 ‐ Oh, my God! Yeah. 00:24:50.380 --> 00:24:52.380 ‐ Come on, man. I know! It's crazy! 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.140 That's all of his life's work in‐‐ in one bite. 00:24:56.140 --> 00:24:58.310 If you didn't work in all the restaurants you've worked in before, 00:24:58.310 --> 00:24:59.890 would you have come up with something like that? 00:24:59.890 --> 00:25:00.980 ‐ I don't think so. 00:25:00.980 --> 00:25:03.100 ‐ You need to learn the rules to break the rules, 00:25:03.100 --> 00:25:05.310 to then do your own thing. Right. Definitely. 00:25:05.310 --> 00:25:07.860 ‐ And I eat sushi all over the place. 00:25:07.860 --> 00:25:10.990 I never have anything that tastes like the sushi that's made here. 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:17.330 This is a new way of doing it while being respectful. 00:25:17.330 --> 00:25:20.790 ‐ So what I want to see more of is innovation in sushi. 00:25:22.830 --> 00:25:26.290 Sometimes innovation means applying old ways to new materials. 00:25:28.170 --> 00:25:31.090 In the case of sushi, we're talking about local ideas, 00:25:31.090 --> 00:25:32.880 local flavors, and no myths, 00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:35.010 like this place is doing. 00:25:35.800 --> 00:25:37.600 After all, I'm sure you're getting hungry. 00:25:37.600 --> 00:25:39.470 This whole episode has been about what you shouldn't eat. 00:25:39.470 --> 00:25:41.060 So here's something you should. 00:25:44.020 --> 00:25:45.940 We're talking about the future of food. 00:25:45.940 --> 00:25:48.980 It is all pretty bad for the most part. 00:25:48.980 --> 00:25:51.190 But the one possible silver lining is 00:25:51.190 --> 00:25:54.320 I think food's gonna get crazy interesting. 00:25:55.950 --> 00:25:59.030 So how long has the Sinaloan sushi thing been happening? 00:25:59.030 --> 00:26:00.790 ‐ Really 15 years. 00:26:00.790 --> 00:26:04.210 I mean, it started in Sinaloa. That goes back 20, 25 years. 00:26:04.210 --> 00:26:06.420 Of course, if you're from Mexico, 00:26:06.420 --> 00:26:09.000 you know that when it comes to seafood, the Sinaloenses, 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.210 they're the ones who * killed the game. 00:26:11.210 --> 00:26:14.470 ‐ I've been to a handful of Sinaloan restaurants, 00:26:14.470 --> 00:26:16.090 Mexican, Japanese food, 00:26:16.090 --> 00:26:17.300 and I love it. 00:26:17.300 --> 00:26:20.930 You know, like, it should not work, but somehow it works, 00:26:20.930 --> 00:26:23.390 and it's everything that I love. 00:26:23.390 --> 00:26:26.100 And it's fusion that's done in a way that makes sense. 00:26:26.100 --> 00:26:27.190 This side right here. 00:26:27.190 --> 00:26:28.230 Ah, aguachile. 00:26:28.230 --> 00:26:30.150 This is the green aguachile right here. 00:26:30.150 --> 00:26:31.320 Oh, my God. 00:26:32.980 --> 00:26:35.280 How long have you had this restaurant? 00:26:35.280 --> 00:26:37.240 ‐ Like four years and a half pretty much. 00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:40.070 Uh, last year, you know, like happened these things and like‐‐ 00:26:40.070 --> 00:26:43.580 I used to work in a‐‐ in a famous restaurant. 00:26:43.580 --> 00:26:45.330 I used to work in Nobu. Nobu, right? 00:26:45.330 --> 00:26:48.580 ‐ Nobu Malibu, and I met a lot of people. 00:26:48.580 --> 00:26:52.380 That's how I am start to do, like, little by little. 00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:54.340 ‐ This is amazing food. It really is. 00:26:54.340 --> 00:26:56.590 Thank you so much. ‐ And I think we're tasting the future. 00:26:56.590 --> 00:26:58.130 ‐ I don't say I'm the best, 00:26:58.130 --> 00:27:01.300 but the thing is, like, I use a little bit different things 00:27:01.300 --> 00:27:03.060 than somebody else used it. 00:27:03.060 --> 00:27:04.930 You know, ingre‐‐ ingredients. 00:27:04.930 --> 00:27:06.980 ‐ He's gonna be the Sinaloan Nobu. 00:27:06.980 --> 00:27:08.980 You're gonna be the Sinaloense Nobu, yeah. 00:27:08.980 --> 00:27:10.020 ‐ I wish, I wish. 00:27:16.030 --> 00:27:20.360 This is as good or better than any Nobu you'll ever go to. 00:27:22.280 --> 00:27:23.620 No one wants to talk about that. 00:27:23.620 --> 00:27:24.830 No, of course not! 00:27:24.830 --> 00:27:26.450 This is * great food. This is great food. 00:27:26.450 --> 00:27:29.330 But because it's in a working class city, done by a Mexican, 00:27:29.330 --> 00:27:31.080 no one's gonna give it the respect that it deserves. 00:27:34.100 --> 00:27:37.600 - 00:27:39.100 --> 00:27:41.600 -- 00:27:41.600 --> 00:27:43.600 - 00:27:46.020 --> 00:27:48.060 This is, uh, guamuchilito. 00:27:48.060 --> 00:27:50.980 They come with octopus, shrimp, 00:27:50.980 --> 00:27:52.900 and a Kani salad roll. 00:27:55.100 --> 00:27:58.600 - 00:27:58.600 --> 00:28:00.100 -- 00:28:00.100 --> 00:28:02.600 - 00:28:05.280 --> 00:28:08.250 ‐ This is the guamuchilito right here. ‐ There it is. 00:28:08.250 --> 00:28:11.580 ‐ This we call el dragón, dragon roll. ‐ El dragón. 00:28:12.600 --> 00:28:15.100 - 00:28:15.100 --> 00:28:20.600 -- 00:28:20.600 --> 00:28:24.100 - 00:28:24.220 --> 00:28:25.850 ‐ More tacos. Oh, I love these tacos. 00:28:26.510 --> 00:28:28.060 Holy cow! 00:28:28.060 --> 00:28:29.600 ‐ Come on, man! 00:28:29.600 --> 00:28:31.020 I actually think that this food 00:28:31.020 --> 00:28:34.060 is closer to the original spirit of sushi 00:28:34.060 --> 00:28:36.940 than a lot of the omakase stuff that you see now. 00:28:36.940 --> 00:28:39.280 It is made with what's available. 00:28:39.280 --> 00:28:40.860 It's convenient. 00:28:40.860 --> 00:28:43.660 ‐ Exactly. This is food left to its own devices. 00:28:43.660 --> 00:28:48.240 Whether people are forced or willingly travel to other places 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:51.370 and work together, and live together, and eat together, 00:28:51.370 --> 00:28:53.790 you know, it's, like, it's going to eventually happen. 00:28:53.790 --> 00:28:57.300 This could be something Americans can be proud of. 00:28:57.300 --> 00:28:58.090 Oh, yeah. 00:29:06.850 --> 00:29:07.970 ‐ Chef. 00:29:10.600 --> 00:29:13.600 -- 00:29:14.020 --> 00:29:17.440 ‐ Oh, the size! Can we spike this one? 00:29:21.150 --> 00:29:25.490 So I recommend just, uh, you know, squeeze lemon and a green tea salt. 00:29:25.490 --> 00:29:26.820 What do you think? 00:29:26.820 --> 00:29:28.780 ‐ It's great for halibut. 00:29:30.500 --> 00:29:33.460 ‐ It dry out after cooking. It's dry. 00:29:35.040 --> 00:29:36.460 This is a special treat. 00:29:36.460 --> 00:29:39.800 And one thing about sushi like this is you shouldn't eat this every day. 00:29:39.800 --> 00:29:42.510 That's what happened to sushi. It was like‐‐ It was a treat. 00:29:42.510 --> 00:29:46.220 It was a special occasion, and then it became a grocery store thing. 00:29:46.220 --> 00:29:48.850 ‐ I'm a loud person by nature. 00:29:48.850 --> 00:29:51.680 By when I'm in a sushi‐‐ sushi shop, I'm like... 00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:52.890 ‐ Right. 00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:56.560 It's a respect thing. Mm‐hmm. 00:29:56.560 --> 00:29:59.860 Like, for example, most people that go into a church, a cathedral, 00:29:59.860 --> 00:30:02.570 know not to take their shoes off and put their feet on the pew. 00:30:02.570 --> 00:30:03.530 You know what I mean? 00:30:04.490 --> 00:30:06.610 There is a version of what you're talking about, Dave, 00:30:06.610 --> 00:30:08.370 where, like, you come to a sushi bar, 00:30:08.370 --> 00:30:10.580 you should be respectful, you should be quiet. 00:30:10.580 --> 00:30:12.120 That's intimidating to people. 00:30:12.120 --> 00:30:14.120 No, you don't have to say anything. 00:30:14.120 --> 00:30:17.170 When you come to a sushi bar, you'll be like, "Whatever you want, chef." 00:30:17.170 --> 00:30:18.290 That's it. ‐ Yeah. 00:30:18.290 --> 00:30:21.170 You can't really compare Japanese knowledge of food 00:30:21.170 --> 00:30:23.630 to anywhere else in the world. 00:30:23.630 --> 00:30:28.590 They just have a longer history of food culture and appreciation 00:30:28.590 --> 00:30:29.510 than we do. 00:30:29.510 --> 00:30:32.390 Given time, we will get better at it. 00:30:32.390 --> 00:30:35.310 And that's why I feel confident that sushi will become something 00:30:35.310 --> 00:30:36.980 that is much more understood. 00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:38.690 ‐ You think so? ‐ I do. 00:30:38.690 --> 00:30:41.020 ‐ That's the most hopeful thing I've ever heard you say. 00:30:41.020 --> 00:30:43.610 ‐ I know. Can you believe that? No! 00:30:43.610 --> 00:30:45.530 ‐ Maybe I have a concussion or something. 00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:51.780 What do you think? In 50 years, what's the future hold? 00:30:51.780 --> 00:30:54.330 ‐ I'm hoping that myself and my kids, they live in a world 00:30:54.330 --> 00:30:57.080 where we all know where our fish comes from 00:30:57.080 --> 00:30:58.540 and who caught it. 00:30:58.540 --> 00:31:00.750 One day, you'll be able to see a menu 00:31:00.750 --> 00:31:02.920 where you can have wild caught salmon, 00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:04.300 you can have farm salmon, 00:31:04.300 --> 00:31:07.510 and you can have Wildtype salmon as an alternative. 00:31:09.600 --> 00:31:12.100 - 00:31:12.100 --> 00:31:15.100 -- 00:31:15.100 --> 00:31:19.100 - 00:31:19.600 --> 00:31:21.690 ‐ I think the reason why sushi is here at all 00:31:21.690 --> 00:31:23.440 is because it's constantly adapted. 00:31:24.570 --> 00:31:25.940 Thank you, chef. 00:31:25.940 --> 00:31:28.200 It's morphed and evolved 00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:30.450 because it's trying to survive. 00:31:31.100 --> 00:31:33.450 - 00:31:34.600 --> 00:31:36.600 --