WEBVTT 00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:58.040 NEWS - PROTESTS CONTINUE OUTSIDE SPOTIFY'S HQ 00:00:58.080 --> 00:01:00.200 Have you checked your pulse? 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:02.120 - Sorry? - Have you checked your pulse? 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:06.840 Thanks for coming on a Sunday. 00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:08.360 Yeah, it's no big deal. 00:01:08.440 --> 00:01:09.280 Is Jim here? 00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:11.920 - Yes, he's in the pavilion. - Okay yeah, good. 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:14.040 - Jim! - Daniel. 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:16.600 - Good to see you. How are you? - I'm great, and you? 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:18.440 - Yeah I'm good. Thank you for coming. - No problem. 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:21.360 Always a pleasure to come over here and get down to the nitty-gritty. 00:01:21.440 --> 00:01:23.040 - Yeah. - How's the Arsenal doing? 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:24.400 * terrible, they lost again. 00:01:24.440 --> 00:01:28.160 - They'd be better off with you in charge. - Yeah. Your words, not mine. 00:01:28.240 --> 00:01:29.640 So... 00:01:29.720 --> 00:01:33.280 As you know, we have an urgent need to maximize revenue, 00:01:33.360 --> 00:01:35.960 or at least bring down our cost base. 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:39.520 If this business is gonna thrive, we have to reduce the cost of the music. 00:01:39.600 --> 00:01:42.480 That's the main reason we spent the last few years testing Discovery Max, 00:01:42.520 --> 00:01:44.880 and now, finally, we have some useful data. 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:46.640 Yeah, and...? 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:49.440 * fantastic. 00:01:49.520 --> 00:01:50.760 Yeah? 00:01:50.840 --> 00:01:54.920 The artists have seen their followers go through the roof. They * love this. 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:57.080 - Alright. - When they get the promotion boost, 00:01:57.360 --> 00:02:01.400 they are seeing listener growth of 40, 50, even 100%. 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:04.440 Concert sales and merch sales are going up... 00:02:04.520 --> 00:02:07.080 Everybody who signed up to it said they'd do it again, no question. 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:09.640 Why don't we roll it out across the whole company? 00:02:09.720 --> 00:02:11.520 Because it's highly contentious. 00:02:11.600 --> 00:02:15.560 And because we only promote bands that agree to hand back a cut of their royalty. 00:02:15.640 --> 00:02:18.840 The artists consent to everything. We're not charging anyone a penny. 00:02:18.920 --> 00:02:23.480 It's a win-win situation, a new business model for a new kind of music industry. 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:26.040 Well the Musicians' Union calls it payola. 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:28.600 And Senator Madison Landy of the US Senate 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:33.080 wrote Spotify a letter expressing significant concern 00:02:33.160 --> 00:02:37.080 that we are participating in anti-competitive activities. 00:02:37.160 --> 00:02:38.800 Well, that's not * good. 00:02:39.640 --> 00:02:43.240 Bottom line is that 70% of everything we bring in on the music, 00:02:43.320 --> 00:02:46.640 goes straight back to the record companies. 70%! 00:02:46.720 --> 00:02:49.320 What other business has to deal with those kind of costs? 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:52.680 Discovery Max is Spotify doing things its own way. 00:02:52.760 --> 00:02:55.360 It's us showing innovation, reshaping music. 00:02:55.440 --> 00:02:57.640 It's us putting power into musicians' hands. 00:02:57.720 --> 00:02:59.360 By halving their royalties. 00:02:59.440 --> 00:03:02.040 I mean, If we don't push the boundaries, we are not gonna survive. 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:05.440 Listen, what you and your team have done is amazing, and I love it, 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.920 but we do need to take this step by step. I mean... 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:09.640 For now, let's just... 00:03:09.720 --> 00:03:13.920 let's roll it out in a way that keeps everyone on our side, okay? 00:03:19.720 --> 00:03:21.040 - Hi honey. - Hi. 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:23.200 - How was the meeting? - It was good. 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:24.680 Is this the new architect? 00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:28.400 - That's exactly what it is. - Yeah, okay. 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:32.920 - Are they tearing it all down? - Yeah. Yeah, I think so. 00:03:33.320 --> 00:03:34.600 Should I pick up the kids? 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:38.000 - No. No, your mom will do that. - Okay. 00:03:38.920 --> 00:03:43.760 Hey... You aren't worried? About the protests? 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.320 - No. - No? 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:48.040 But I can see that you are. 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:52.360 I'm just worried they're gonna blame you for this you know... 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:53.760 No, they won't blame me for anything. 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:57.520 Look at this. This singer has been on Spotify since the start. 00:03:57.600 --> 00:04:00.400 Do you know why she stays? Because she knows we're the best. 00:04:00.760 --> 00:04:02.400 Spotify, what we want... 00:04:02.480 --> 00:04:05.120 A small but persistent group 00:04:05.200 --> 00:04:05.840 has been protesting outside Spotify's headquarters here in Stockholm. 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:10.440 These comments are from protest leader Nadja Johansson, an ex-musician, 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:13.240 who feels forced to act because of the situation... 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:16.240 You have to go to school. I don't want you to be late today. 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:18.240 No, I'm not worried about that. 00:04:18.320 --> 00:04:20.800 There's always going to be people who are opposed to success... 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:31.720 I LOVE IT 00:04:34.880 --> 00:04:36.200 First floor. 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:08.480 - Hey, great gig. - Thanks. 00:05:08.640 --> 00:05:12.280 - Yeah, I sent you the money. - Thanks, awesome. See you. 00:05:12.400 --> 00:05:13.600 See you. Take care. 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:22.800 You've only given me half. What's going on? 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:27.800 I didn't sell as many drinks today as I did last time or the time before that. 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:33.960 Wait a minute, I played a gig you hired me to play. 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:38.280 Yeah, but do you want me to go broke just so you can play here? 00:05:39.280 --> 00:05:43.520 I mean, you get free PR by playing here. People go home and stream your music. 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:45.080 That's great for you. 00:06:28.440 --> 00:06:32.800 Okay, I... I don't know how this will turn out, 00:06:32.880 --> 00:06:36.560 but I have reached a place where there's nothing more that I can do. 00:06:37.520 --> 00:06:39.160 I am a musician. 00:06:39.440 --> 00:06:43.880 I've worked my * off releasing and writing six albums in the last ten years. 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:49.640 I've had many hits. My songs are played close to 200,000 times a month on Spotify. 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:53.880 However, I don't make enough from any of that to pay my rent. 00:06:54.840 --> 00:06:58.360 And I take all the gigs I can get, I have a job on the side, 00:06:58.440 --> 00:07:01.960 everything for the privilege to make music. 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:06.200 Even though I tell myself every day that soon things might improve, 00:07:06.280 --> 00:07:10.960 if I write a hit song, or end up on the right playlist, things will change. 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:14.960 But the truth is that the system is totally broken. 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:20.840 The music industry made 23 million dollars last year. 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:22.760 And the record companies are thriving. 00:07:22.840 --> 00:07:26.160 They're making more money now than they did before piracy. 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:30.600 The ten people who make the most money in Sweden 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.320 come from the same streaming company every year. 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:38.200 Despite that, all the artists who create music for their platform 00:07:38.280 --> 00:07:40.240 can barely survive. 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:42.640 Daniel... 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:45.280 Today you liked one of my songs. 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:49.720 You added it to your playlist, which is awesome. 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:55.240 But if you really liked it, how about you sit down and talk to us. 00:07:56.440 --> 00:08:00.640 Help us create a new discussion about the streaming business. 00:08:01.280 --> 00:08:07.880 Help us make a new system, a music industry where we can actually survive. 00:08:07.960 --> 00:08:13.280 BOBBI T THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:23.680 - Everything okay? - Absolutely. 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:28.720 I know this is something you dismissed a long time ago and... 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:34.200 Well, you may not like that I bring it up, but considering the situation and... 00:08:34.280 --> 00:08:37.080 I'm sorry to interrupt, but have you been online? 00:08:37.160 --> 00:08:38.960 - No. - Take a look. 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:42.840 CHILDHOOD FRIEND CHALLENGES DANIEL EK. 00:08:42.880 --> 00:08:46.560 Bobbi Thomasson, musician and childhood friend of Daniel Ek 00:08:46.640 --> 00:08:51.200 posted an emotional and personal video on her Instagram story yesterday. 00:08:51.280 --> 00:08:54.640 Daniel, today you liked one of my songs. 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:58.200 You added it to your playlist, which is awesome. 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:02.520 But if you really liked it, how about you sit down and talk to us. 00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:07.480 Since last night, the video has been shared more than 12,000 times, 00:09:07.560 --> 00:09:11.080 and has the support from a growing number of other musicians. 00:09:11.160 --> 00:09:16.600 Everybody, this is Bobbi Thomasson, she can get to Daniel Ek. 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:22.760 Hi. 00:09:23.640 --> 00:09:25.400 Well, we've been doing this for months, 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:29.360 but nobody really cared until after your post. 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:30.280 - Bobbi. - Rhonda. 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:31.200 Nice to meet you. 00:09:31.280 --> 00:09:32.960 We put your video on our feed. 00:09:33.040 --> 00:09:36.000 It's gotten over 20,000 likes in under two hours. 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:39.360 And the hashtag 'Scratch the Record', trending since yesterday. 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:42.600 You connected with people, now we are all in. 00:09:42.680 --> 00:09:45.640 No, I don't think that I'm the right person for this. 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:49.760 I just posted a video because I was tired and cranky. 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:52.000 No, you're an activist. 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:56.080 We are all activists now. They've forced us into this. 00:09:56.160 --> 00:09:58.560 Well, this may sound a bit strange, 00:09:58.640 --> 00:10:01.560 but I know Daniel Ek, okay? 00:10:01.640 --> 00:10:07.120 We grew up together, and I mean, I support you 100%, of course, 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:10.280 but I posted the video because I wanted to start a dialogue. 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:13.200 And regardless, I have to wait and see what he says. 00:10:15.040 --> 00:10:18.520 You haven't checked your Instagram today? 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:22.600 He stopped following you this morning. 00:10:22.680 --> 00:10:25.960 Daniel is not interested in having a dialogue. 00:10:26.040 --> 00:10:27.880 None of them are. 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:31.040 They want us to shut up, they want us to go away. 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.880 Just so you know, there's another protest happening by headquarters. 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:40.440 Okay. 00:10:42.680 --> 00:10:45.360 Daniel, would you mind looking at this? 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:47.600 Yeah. What is this? 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:50.400 It's a proposed sale of Spotify. 00:10:51.160 --> 00:10:54.040 I know that this isn't something you've considered before, 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:58.720 but every CEO, every founder, has to choose their moment. 00:10:58.800 --> 00:11:02.480 - You've had an amazing journey. - No, I won't sell Spotify. 00:11:02.560 --> 00:11:06.400 You hired me to be somebody who's always straight with you and tells you the truth. 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:09.440 And I'm doing that right now. The market is still in our favor. 00:11:09.520 --> 00:11:13.480 But what will you do when the market value drops below the IPO? 00:11:13.560 --> 00:11:19.320 I hired you because you're pragmatic and stubborn, but this is too much. 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:23.120 Okay, and what do we do right now? 00:11:23.880 --> 00:11:25.200 We'll have to borrow some more money. 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:28.720 Daniel, last year we already borrowed more than one billion dollars. 00:11:28.800 --> 00:11:31.320 We're gonna have to borrow some more and that's how we get through this. 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:36.080 We'll do some more acquisitions, invest in some new tech, like we've always done. 00:11:36.160 --> 00:11:38.440 This is your way out. 00:11:38.520 --> 00:11:40.960 If you sell Spotify, you protect your legacy. 00:11:41.040 --> 00:11:44.320 You also protect your brand, you protect what you've built... 00:11:44.400 --> 00:11:46.600 I won't sell Spotify, I... 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:52.000 I'm not retiring yet. 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:54.240 - Daniel... - What? 00:11:58.520 --> 00:12:02.240 Scratch the Record! Scratch the Record! 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.440 Okay, hold your heads down. Security is here. 00:12:07.520 --> 00:12:08.920 Shit! 00:12:24.880 --> 00:12:30.600 Scratch the Record! Scratch the Record! 00:12:30.680 --> 00:12:33.000 - Daniel, this is outrageous! - Yeah, I know. 00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:35.280 - Just relax, okay? - Relax? 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:38.040 The business model that we have, it's fine. 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:42.120 We have new content, we'll give them more support and soon we'll have Discovery Max. 00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:43.920 There's no reason to panic. 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:49.360 No, I'm not here as Daniel Ek's enemy. 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:51.880 I'm here as someone who used to know him, 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.920 and who believed in the promises he gave me and other musicians. 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:57.160 Scratch the record! 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:01.000 I'm here today to say that enough is enough. 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.760 I have told my colleagues to be patient. 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.360 I've tried to believe in him. 00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:11.000 But the average salary for an employee at Spotify is 130,000 dollars, 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:14.680 while the musicians who build his platform are on their knees. 00:13:15.880 --> 00:13:21.080 Daniel Ek, it's time for you to "Scratch the Record". 00:13:21.160 --> 00:13:26.800 It's time for you to sit down and talk to us, for real this time. We're waiting 00:13:27.480 --> 00:13:29.120 - Unbelievable. - Yeah. 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:31.720 This pantomime is distracting the whole office. It's a public disturbance. 00:13:31.760 --> 00:13:34.360 - We should call the police now. - We can't call the police. 00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:38.600 This is a platform for musicians. How will it look like if they're arrested 00:13:38.640 --> 00:13:40.120 - outside our office? - Exactly. 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:43.480 Well, it looks like the police decided to turn up anyway. 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:50.440 This is illegal demonstration. You're disturbing the peace... 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:52.680 - and we ask you to leave immediately. - Shit. 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:55.800 Scratch the Record! 00:13:56.840 --> 00:13:58.800 Let her go! 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:04.640 - Don't hold me! - You're disturbing, please discard now! 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:10.240 I repeat, this is an illegal, demonstration. You're disturbing the peace 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:13.760 and we ask you to leave immediately. 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:17.320 Anyone who remains on this premises will 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:18.320 will be arrested. 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:26.480 This is bad, Daniel. 00:14:30.640 --> 00:14:32.800 I think it's a story just because it's in Sweden. 00:14:33.560 --> 00:14:35.680 We shouldn't forget that we are listed in New York. 00:14:35.760 --> 00:14:38.160 We have more Chinese shareholders than Swedish ones. 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:41.920 But this may affect your ability to borrow more money. You know what? 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:44.440 I'm working myself to death, I run from bank to bank. 00:14:44.520 --> 00:14:46.920 And you know what the first thing is they ask about? 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:48.880 These protests. 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:53.720 Daniel... you made it clear that you don't want to sell Spotify. 00:14:53.800 --> 00:14:57.320 You want me to find more money that will enable new innovations. 00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:01.720 Okay. Well in that case, you will have to make sure this doesn't get any bigger. 00:15:03.760 --> 00:15:06.840 One thing that I've learned during my in politics... 00:15:06.920 --> 00:15:09.240 "Never let yourself become the story." 00:15:25.160 --> 00:15:27.760 - Do you want to play with us, Papa? - Yeah, maybe later. 00:15:31.880 --> 00:15:32.880 Hi. 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:35.320 You okay? 00:15:37.680 --> 00:15:39.320 You're everywhere, Daniel. 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:43.000 These protests, they're not gonna die down. 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:48.120 All those... sorry... those damn protesters who say that Spotify needs to change, 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:52.000 - I don't even understand they mean. - Are these the new designs? 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:54.960 Yeah. 00:15:55.040 --> 00:15:56.520 About this, erh... 00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:01.920 Ernst was a bit worried that you might think it's a bit too big. 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:03.280 Don't compromise. 00:16:03.880 --> 00:16:05.880 I think we should make it even bigger. 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:15.440 Hello. Did you get hold of Sundin? 00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:20.720 Okay, tell that traitor that I'm on my way. 00:16:21.920 --> 00:16:23.600 - Hey. - Hey yourself! 00:16:23.680 --> 00:16:25.240 How are you? Nice to see you. 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:28.720 - It's nice to see you too.. - So, you okay? 00:16:28.800 --> 00:16:32.520 - Yeah, well... I'm alive. - Yes, I know. 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:37.040 Discovery Max looked... I saw some test results. They were... 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:40.000 Here is the deal. I need you to do something. 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:41.440 Okay... 00:16:41.520 --> 00:16:44.440 I want you to call Bobbi Thomasson. 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:48.440 I want you to explain to her that this thing she's doing can only be 00:16:48.520 --> 00:16:50.000 detrimental. 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:53.680 That it's based on a complete misunderstanding of how Spotify works. 00:16:53.760 --> 00:16:58.680 I don't think I've seen Bobbi in about ten years. 00:16:58.760 --> 00:17:01.720 I can try to get her contact information and then you... 00:17:01.800 --> 00:17:04.560 Hold on. Did you say try? 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:07.200 - Yes, I can try to get hold of... - She was your performer. 00:17:07.280 --> 00:17:09.760 You were the one who signed her. You promoted her. 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:13.440 - You can contact her. - No, I can't. 00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:22.000 I know what's going on. 00:17:23.760 --> 00:17:26.400 You use these people, sign them, use them for money, 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:28.560 and then when you are finished, you forget them. 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:31.040 When Bobbi is upset about what she earns, 00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:34.360 does she turn to a Universal or a BMG? 00:17:34.520 --> 00:17:38.800 Does she turn to any of the people who are responsible for what she earns? 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:45.440 No, she and her stupid, * friends of hers set up camp outside my office, 00:17:45.520 --> 00:17:47.640 throwing all their * shit at me. 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:50.120 Did I sign her? Did I encourage her? 00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:55.280 Did I encourage any of these over millions of people who live in that fantasy 00:17:55.360 --> 00:17:59.080 that you have sold them, that they might be the next Drake or Taylor Swift, 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:03.600 getting them to sign shameless contracts they are too young to understand. 00:18:03.600 --> 00:18:05.240 But who do they hold responsible? 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.120 Let me give you an answer, me! 00:18:09.760 --> 00:18:12.440 But you don't care! Of course not! Why would you? 00:18:12.520 --> 00:18:16.760 You and the record companies got what you wanted, 70% of what we make. 00:18:16.840 --> 00:18:18.400 Yeah, you got a really good deal there. 00:18:19.040 --> 00:18:22.480 And I'm the stupid bastard who * agreed to it all. 00:18:29.040 --> 00:18:31.560 It's gonna be a while. 00:18:56.520 --> 00:18:58.520 RESTAURANT 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.360 At a bar in Rågsved? 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:29.720 Uhm mh. 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:33.520 - Why are you here, Daniel? - I think we should talk. 00:19:33.600 --> 00:19:35.800 Now? When I have a gig? 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:43.520 I don't care whether other people protest. But you, Bobbi, you know me. 00:19:44.560 --> 00:19:47.920 That's why I joined them. If you don't know someone, you won't listen. 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.080 But what is it you want me to listen to? 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:52.440 A bunch of people who refuse to accept the world has changed? 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.680 That's not true, it hasn't changed at all. It's like a * bad dream. 00:19:57.840 --> 00:20:02.120 Maybe you haven't understood how to make the most of Spotify. 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:05.680 - Please, don't do this. - Listen to me. I just wanted to say... 00:20:05.760 --> 00:20:11.240 If you let me... I will show you how to make the most of Spotify. 00:20:11.320 --> 00:20:16.200 And then? Are you going to pay a visit to the other 1.5 million performers and what? 00:20:16.280 --> 00:20:18.440 - Tell them all your secrets as well? - You remember how it was? 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.560 You told me that Pirate Bay uploaded all of your songs. 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:26.360 So we should be grateful that they aren't stealing from us like 15 years ago? 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:28.600 No, that's not what I mean. Come on. 00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:30.680 You're talking about your journey... 00:20:31.800 --> 00:20:33.520 But what about our journey? 00:20:33.600 --> 00:20:38.640 All the millions of musicians who have absolutely no control of money they earn. 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:41.160 It can't be my responsibility to help the careers of all the artists. 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:46.000 Why not? You are the most powerful person in the music industry right now. 00:20:46.760 --> 00:20:49.760 You are the system and that's what you wanted. 00:20:50.760 --> 00:20:54.800 You wanted to create the biggest music platform in the world. 00:20:55.600 --> 00:20:58.520 - Bobbi, it's time. - Okay. 00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:02.960 - Nice place... - Bulshit. 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:06.360 My point is, you don't actually want to help us. 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:10.200 Bobbi, I do want to help you. 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:12.400 Bobbi, come on. 00:21:13.360 --> 00:21:15.160 Okay, yeah. 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.320 Thank you for staying for the whole gig. 00:23:47.760 --> 00:23:48.760 What's wrong? 00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:57.800 I understand that you want me to... to change Spotify. 00:23:59.560 --> 00:24:02.720 But the changes that you want me to make, 00:24:02.800 --> 00:24:04.320 would destroy us. 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:06.040 It doesn't have to be that way. 00:24:09.040 --> 00:24:10.560 You have your songs, Bobbi. 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:15.760 Your music... That's what Spotify is to me. 00:24:17.280 --> 00:24:19.160 Everything I am is a part of that. 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:25.720 And it doesn't matter what you say, 00:24:26.520 --> 00:24:29.680 I will never let anyone take that away from me. 00:25:06.600 --> 00:25:07.840 Scratch the Record. 00:25:16.320 --> 00:25:18.880 A movement called 'Scratch The Record' 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:21.200 is now spreading around the world. 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:23.480 The Swedish artist named Bobbi Thomasson... 00:25:23.560 --> 00:25:26.200 BREAKING - PROTESTS ACROSS EUROPE THOUSANDS OF MUSICIANS MARCHING 00:25:26.280 --> 00:25:29.280 THE BIGGEST REUNION OF MUSICIANS AND FANS TO THIS DAY IN PARIS 00:25:29.360 --> 00:25:30.920 Protest against Spotify... 00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:39.920 SCRATCH THE RECORD SPOKESWOMAN BOBBI THOMANSSON HAS RISEN SUPERNOVA FAME 00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:44.560 Scratch the record. 00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:00.840 This is bullshit. 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:03.480 You know they only reason they brought us here is to humiliate us. 00:26:03.520 --> 00:26:05.680 It's the US Senate Daniel, they're meant to humiliate us. 00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:07.880 But I'm not supposed to be here. I'm not American citizen. 00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:09.840 Daniel, you've got this. 00:26:11.080 --> 00:26:13.680 You know what it is? It's theater. 00:26:14.040 --> 00:26:16.120 You're the CEO, Daniel. 00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:17.840 You run the company. 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:20.920 If we lose this argument in front of the committee, 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:25.720 our whole business could be screwed, so please, just don't resist. 00:26:26.560 --> 00:26:32.000 Yeah? Focus. Stay cool and calmly answer everything they throw at you. 00:26:36.760 --> 00:26:38.240 We're here. 00:26:41.360 --> 00:26:43.360 What kind of power do they really have? 00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:45.880 The kind of power that can recommend a fixed price of a stream, 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.920 regulate everything and completely destroy our business model. 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:53.120 You have to focus on the Senator Landy. This is her hearing. She pushed for it. 00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:55.320 She's staked everything on this. Do not let her win. 00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:56.400 Daniel? 00:26:57.480 --> 00:26:58.880 Okay. 00:27:02.080 --> 00:27:05.080 What the * is she doing here? 00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:07.000 Forget about her. She's irrelevant. 00:27:07.080 --> 00:27:09.920 She's here as a representative or some shit. Whatever, who cares? 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:12.680 You have to shut Lanley down. 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:13.920 What about the everyone else? 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:17.840 Keep them engaged. As long as they make eye contact with you, we're good. 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:20.840 As soon as they start avoiding your gaze, we're *. And Daniel... 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:22.960 you can do this. 00:27:23.800 --> 00:27:26.600 Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:28.120 - so help you God? - I do. 00:27:37.520 --> 00:27:39.880 Could you please identify yourself for the committee? 00:27:40.760 --> 00:27:44.600 My name is Daniel Ek and I'm the CEO and co-founder of Spotify. 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:49.680 Mr. Ek, you previously described Spotify's mission as 00:27:49.760 --> 00:27:53.320 "To unlock the potential of human creativity 00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:58.840 by giving a million artists the opportunity to live off their art." 00:27:58.920 --> 00:27:59.920 Yes. 00:28:00.520 --> 00:28:02.480 How is your progress towards that? 00:28:02.560 --> 00:28:07.160 Excellent. Our top tier club of artistes who can support themselves from streams 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.040 has doubled in the last three years and tripled since 2015. 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:13.160 That's impressive... 00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:16.600 So, at your current rate of growth, 00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:21.360 you would hit that one million figure in... just under 75 years? 00:28:24.800 --> 00:28:28.560 Your business model just doesn't work for musicians, does it? 00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:30.080 That's not true. 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:34.280 What are the average earnings of an artiste not in your top tier? 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.840 Well, the number of artistes changes so fast for us to know. 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:42.320 Mr. Ek, from your own data, I can see here that the figure is... 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:44.240 12 dollars a month. 00:28:46.040 --> 00:28:49.120 - Could you live off that? - Well, that number is not verified. 00:28:49.360 --> 00:28:51.280 It's taken from your own results. 00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:54.920 Excuse me, Madam Chairwoman. Mr. Ek... 00:28:55.720 --> 00:28:59.760 Isn't it the case that Spotify is just one platform among many? 00:28:59.840 --> 00:29:02.720 Yes, that is correct. Spotify is one platform among many, 00:29:02.800 --> 00:29:05.560 and artistes have several platforms to earn an income from. 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:08.800 It's not fair to put all that on Spotify. 00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:12.760 What percentage of the streaming market does Spotify control? 00:29:12.840 --> 00:29:14.720 I believe it's around 25%, Senator. 00:29:14.800 --> 00:29:18.760 You control almost 45% of the US market alone. 00:29:18.840 --> 00:29:22.400 In some countries, your share is as high as 60%. 00:29:23.040 --> 00:29:27.120 Five times as many users as your nearest rival. 00:29:27.880 --> 00:29:31.280 To all intents and purposes, you are a monopoly. 00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:33.040 We are not a monopoly. 00:29:33.080 --> 00:29:36.200 No artiste can take themselves off your platform, 00:29:36.280 --> 00:29:40.040 no artiste can risk losing exposure to your audience. 00:29:40.120 --> 00:29:45.360 You control streaming and you control the fate of musicians. 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:51.800 I'm sorry, Senator. Was there a question in there, or...? 00:29:55.280 --> 00:30:00.680 Do you believe the size of your business model creates a problem for artistes? 00:30:00.760 --> 00:30:04.440 Spotify is about partnering with the artiste, 00:30:04.520 --> 00:30:08.400 In building the music industry with them, they create a future together. 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:11.960 When the Copyright Royalty Board awarded songwriters 00:30:12.040 --> 00:30:17.160 their first raise in almost 50 years, how did Spotify react? 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:21.800 - We sought clarification. - You sought clarification? 00:30:22.600 --> 00:30:26.160 You took them to court. You lodged an appeal against them, 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.440 and you got lawyers to argue for a cut in what they're paid. 00:30:30.520 --> 00:30:33.960 Does that sound like a company that supports artistes? 00:30:34.040 --> 00:30:36.600 It sounds like a company that has its own approach, 00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:38.760 but we support songwriters. 00:30:38.840 --> 00:30:42.120 We partner with them, we champion them. 00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:47.520 You use your size and marketing budget to silence your critics, Mr. Ek. 00:30:47.600 --> 00:30:52.080 At every opportunity, you do everything you can to drive down 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:54.680 the share you pay musicians. 00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:58.560 Don't you think you have a responsibility to these people? 00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:01.520 I believe that musicians need to understand 00:31:01.600 --> 00:31:03.400 that I'm the best friend they've got. 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:05.440 I'm the only one who's not lying to them. 00:31:05.520 --> 00:31:08.680 I'm the only one who's honest about the fact that we can't go back, 00:31:08.760 --> 00:31:13.480 that this is a completely new industry with new rules and new principles. 00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:16.400 I'm the one working day and night to create the opportunities 00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:18.560 that they need to achieve their dreams. 00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:25.360 What is Discovery Max? 00:31:30.520 --> 00:31:32.840 Discovery Max is a perfect example. 00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:35.120 It's a service that helps artistes. 00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:37.160 Discovery Max is a service, 00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:41.120 in which you take a bigger share of the artist's royalty, 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:44.400 and in return offer them extra promotion. 00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:48.800 Well, Discovery Max is an exchange between Spotify and the artiste. 00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:53.160 It is straight up music industry payola, and it has to stop. 00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:55.120 You're splitting hairs, Mr. Ek. 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:58.760 You reduce the artist's royalty and in return you fix the game. 00:31:58.840 --> 00:32:00.600 We're not fixing anything. 00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:05.480 The major record companies own almost 20% of Spotify, don't they? 00:32:05.560 --> 00:32:09.160 It's possible. That's... It's around that number, yes. 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:12.760 So, the musicians are on the labels, 00:32:12.840 --> 00:32:15.160 the labels own part of Spotify, Spotify decides which musicians get promoted, 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:20.560 and then the income from the streams goes straight back to those labels. 00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:23.040 What part of that does not sound like a cartel? 00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:26.920 We're not a cartel. 00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:28.440 You control the market. 00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:31.240 You're in bed with your suppliers. 00:32:31.320 --> 00:32:35.800 And then, at every turn, you use your reach and your technology 00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:38.320 to drive down the share that you pay musicians, 00:32:38.760 --> 00:32:42.880 to pay the people that depend on you and your platform to make a living wage. 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:46.040 Can you seriously sit there and tell me that in any other part of the world, 00:32:46.080 --> 00:32:48.280 this would be considered acceptable? 00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:55.600 There's a lot of negative comments. The word cartel seem to resonate. 00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:57.800 It's a few voices on social media, It's nothing to... 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:05.000 Would you please identify yourself for the committee? 00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:07.120 My name is Bobbi Thomasson. 00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:09.200 I'm a musician, but I'm here today 00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:14.040 as the US and global head of a musicians group called "Scratch the Record". 00:33:14.120 --> 00:33:16.400 That's a musicians' advocacy group? 00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:17.800 Yes, that's correct. 00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:19.720 And what are you advocating? 00:33:20.600 --> 00:33:23.840 When our music is used, when it's streamed, 00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:28.680 we argue that musicians deserve to be paid a fixed price per stream. 00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:32.520 And we want that to be recognized in law. 00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:36.760 We would all like to get paid more, but that doesn't mean we can change the law. 00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:42.520 Musicians have lobbied streamers for a decent cut, 00:33:42.600 --> 00:33:45.920 but all we ever get are words. We need a law. 00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:50.680 In every generation, there are winners and losers. 00:33:50.760 --> 00:33:53.160 And people say that's just how it is. 00:33:53.240 --> 00:33:56.240 But this Senate has always been able to tell the difference 00:33:56.320 --> 00:33:58.880 between change and exploitation. 00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:02.560 Miss Thomasson, with all respect, 00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:08.080 you're not a front line worker, you're a musician and you chose to do that. 00:34:08.160 --> 00:34:11.480 So you want musicians to accept that music is precious, 00:34:11.560 --> 00:34:13.200 but they're interchangeable? 00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:15.800 - That's not what I said. - It is what you said. 00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:18.080 It's what everybody always says. 00:34:18.160 --> 00:34:19.960 But if you want to enjoy something, 00:34:20.040 --> 00:34:23.400 you have no right to ignore the conditions it was made in. 00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:25.880 Spotify is... It's just a platform. 00:34:27.120 --> 00:34:31.280 Spotify churns out a product to millions of phones and laptops, 00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:32.840 like a factory, 00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.200 and the workers that supply that product are musicians. 00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:40.040 Spotify is always telling us how grateful we should be for that exposure, 00:34:40.120 --> 00:34:44.360 but I'm here to say that you can't pay the bills with likes. 00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:46.880 We don't care how many analytics you build, 00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:48.600 how many different ways you tell us 00:34:48.600 --> 00:34:51.360 we have more listeners in Boston than Stockholm. 00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:56.120 When our work is used, we want to get paid. 00:34:56.200 --> 00:34:58.400 Why is that this Senate's business? 00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:01.880 Why is that not for the market? Or for the consumer? 00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:04.160 Because, in 1938, 00:35:04.240 --> 00:35:07.640 this was the Senate that introduced a statuary minimum wage for the employees 00:35:07.680 --> 00:35:11.240 of the new steel and oil industries. 00:35:11.320 --> 00:35:13.720 Senators saw that the world had changed. 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:16.280 A new law was needed. 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:20.320 That minimum wage looks obvious now. 00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:21.960 But the bosses fought it. 00:35:22.720 --> 00:35:27.760 Law makers had to see that the oil companies simply had too much power. 00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:30.760 That is exactly where we are today. 00:35:31.120 --> 00:35:34.000 This is about the big monopolies of today. 00:35:34.560 --> 00:35:37.880 It's about whether we have the courage to see that musicians 00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:41.440 are no different to oil and steel workers. 00:35:42.080 --> 00:35:44.400 We deserve the same rights... 00:35:45.240 --> 00:35:47.600 the same recognition... 00:35:47.680 --> 00:35:49.760 and until we acknowledge that, 00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:53.440 streaming will always be exploitation. 00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:58.960 Bullshit. Exploitation? The law? 00:35:59.040 --> 00:36:00.600 Who the * does she think she is? 00:36:00.680 --> 00:36:03.520 She's someone who knows she's got the support of several senators. 00:36:03.600 --> 00:36:06.120 So what if she does? So do we. We have... 00:36:06.200 --> 00:36:10.160 Lobbyists. We have influence. Do not go and talk to her, Daniel. 00:36:10.240 --> 00:36:14.880 I can't just ignore her anymore. Just... stay calm. 00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:24.520 Well, that was... You were impressive. 00:36:25.200 --> 00:36:28.240 - I know you don't mean that. - I do, unfortunately yeah. 00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.520 I'm just the messenger. 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:34.240 But the message, Bobbi, you can't be serious. 00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:35.920 Exploitation? 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.160 You compared Spotify to an oil company. 00:36:38.240 --> 00:36:40.520 I remember what you said at the start... 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:44.960 I remember your promise that everybody would benefit from Spotify. 00:36:48.160 --> 00:36:49.280 Think about that. 00:36:49.680 --> 00:36:51.200 - Daniel. - Yeah? 00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:53.320 - It's done. - What's done? 00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:56.240 I just spoke to the bank and they agreed. 00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:59.440 Another billion. You got the loan. 00:37:01.040 --> 00:37:02.240 Okay... 00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:08.040 What do we do about all this? 00:37:08.120 --> 00:37:13.320 Do you think the bank cares about what a bunch of activists or senators think? 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:18.240 In all this chaos they heard only one thing: 45%. 00:37:18.920 --> 00:37:21.400 You control the market. That's all they care about. 00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:25.480 Uhm. What do you think? 00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:29.040 Maybe you're right. 00:37:29.120 --> 00:37:33.320 I might have been in politics for long. 00:37:34.600 --> 00:37:37.920 But listen... This is the last loan we can take out. 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:39.960 You have to figure out the business model. 00:37:40.040 --> 00:37:42.560 If you can't do that, do not take the money. 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:46.120 Thanks. 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:49.040 Are you all okay? 00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:52.360 Do you know where Bobbi went? 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:02.640 You know what I regret most about Spotify? 00:38:04.040 --> 00:38:06.840 That I didn't walk out on the negotiations. 00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:13.200 When you're sitting there in the first talks about the music rights... 00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:16.960 I should have said that, "This is the future. 00:38:18.560 --> 00:38:21.600 If you want to be a part of it, it has to be on our terms." 00:38:22.600 --> 00:38:24.800 That would have been so damn beautiful. 00:38:25.600 --> 00:38:29.120 So what you're saying is that everything would have been better... 00:38:29.160 --> 00:38:31.600 if you'd stopped listening to people? 00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:36.920 Yeah. 00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:04.360 That was the last shot for me and you too, guys!